Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[vikingTON]

7 minutes ago, tirso said:

Come on now.  They all said they'd implement it multiple times and triggered Article 50.

Implement what exactly? When it came to the actual negotiation the UK proved incapable of articulating what it wanted and couldn't pass it through its own Parliament because there was in fact no consensus of views. 

Quote

There's no consensus support in Parliament because of Theresa May's actions, losing her majority and Tory extremes in the ERG. 

Who was responsible for voting for a Parliament where May had no credible majority and in which a bunch of gammon ERG members could wield influence? Oh that's right, the general public who voted for that in 2017. From that point the hallowed 'mandate' of the 2016 referendum no longer exists. This is a representative democracy and the UK electorate are getting what they asked for, specifically, in that general election. 

Quote

 I don't accept that there was no other way of leaving and that there couldn't have been a coalition to take forward the clear mandate to leave.

Don't really care about what you will or won't accept tbh, as the facts demonstrate otherwise.

Edited September 5, 2019 by vikingTON

[vikingTON]

'Why couldn't we all get behind Theresa May's peace and love, consensus-building agenda for Brexit while it lasted' is by far the worst hot take I've ever seen on this thread btw. 

 

[tirso]

31 minutes ago, virginton said:

Implement what exactly? When it came to the actual negotiation the UK proved incapable of articulating what it wanted and couldn't pass it through its own Parliament because there was in fact no consensus of views. 

Who was responsible for voting for a Parliament where May had no credible majority and in which a bunch of gammon ERG members could wield influence? Oh that's right, the general public who voted for that in 2017. From that point the hallowed 'mandate' of the 2016 referendum no longer exists. This is a representative democracy and the UK electorate are getting what they asked for, specifically, in that general election. 

Don't really care about what you will or won't accept tbh, as the facts demonstrate otherwise.

In 2017 both Tories and Labour said it would stand by the result... it's not the general public's fault they believed them.

 

[aDONisSheep]

1 hour ago, tirso said:

what was so bad about the May deal?  It was hated by both extremes so it must have been doing something right .

As a Scottish independence supporter i've yet to hear why it's bad for an independent Scotland either.  It would have had a backstop of England taking rules and no hard border.

Hi Tirso

It's a fair question and I can only give why I thought it was a bad deal, and part of that is personal (others with have their reasons).

1)  During the WA period we gave up any influence on crafting new regulations/standards etc.  (I understand why the EU argued for this, but we should not have agreed, whilst we were still being expected to pay).

2)  The deal itself focused on Citizens rights, Trade of goods and weirdly fishing (which it kicked down the road IIRC).  All of which remained in a pretty much status quo status, however (and this is where it gets personal), the UK would have had restricted rights to EU markets for services.  We would only get equivalence status (similar to say the US), and on the basis many services we currently provide (and make a surplus on) would be restricted.  (It's a little technical, but equivalence is effectively where the EU has agreed a set of standards that it will deal with 3rd parties/countries on (i.e. those outside of the EU).  The big problem is, that it's rules don't cover all the financial services the UK delivers to the EU.

So essentially the WA left the borders open for items where the UK traded at a deficit (goods), but restricted the UKs abilitiy to sell services where it made a surplus (some financial services).

IMHO it was an attempt by the EU to attract UK financial services to europe and for some reason we agreed to it.

Yours

aDONis

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by aDONisSheep

[tirso]

1 minute ago, aDONisSheep said:

Hi Tirso

It's a fair question and I can only give why I thought it was a bad deal, and part of that is personal (others with have the

1)  During the WA period we gave up any influence on crafting new regulations/standards etc.  (I understand why the EU argued for this, but we should not have agreed, whilst we were still being expected to pay).

2)  The deal itself focused on Citizens rights, Trade of goods and weirdly fishing (which it kicked down the road IIRC).  All of which remained in a pretty much status quo status, however (and this is where it gets personal), the UK would have had restricted rights to EU markets for services.  We would only get equivalence status (similar to say the US), and on the basis many services we currently provide (and make a surplus on) would be restricted.  (It's a little technical, but equivalence is effectively where the EU has agreed a set of standards that it will deal with 3rd parties/countries on (i.e. those outside of the EU).  The big problem is, that it's rules don't cover all the financial services the UK delivers to the EU.

So essentially the WA left the borders open for items where the UK traded at a deficit (goods), but restricted the UKs abilitiy to sell services where it made a surplus (some financial services).

IMHO it was an attempt by the EU to attract UK financial services to europe and for some reason we agreed to it.

Yours

aDONis

 

cheers.  looks like you've given it some thought.

So would it have been good for an independent Scotland then?

[WhiteRoseKillie]

2 hours ago, WATTOO said:

The other issue with a GE is that EVEN that doesn't give you a say.

Take our Luciana as an example, you could vote Labour but end up with a "Change UK" representative or maybe an Independent, or maybe a Lib Dem or who knows, it might decide to support the Tories next month, all very confusing indeed..........

..and as if by magic, the wee blairite witch joins the LibDems. At least that way, somebody else will be pissing money up the wall footing the bill for her re-election campaign.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

..and as if by magic, the wee blairite witch joins the LibDems. At least that way, somebody else will be pissing money up the wall footing the bill for her re-election campaign.

Yes, a disgusting individual who uses the horrors of genocide to try and make herself relevant.

Lowest of the low....................

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 hour ago, virginton said:

Aye the government is going out there to deliberately get horsed on a daily basis, have its majority drop into negative double figures, fail to win any media coverage for its blatant pre-election bribe while losing the initiative on when to call that vote. And the EU's obviously looking at all of this and is now suddenly desperate to dig him out of that hole regardless. Literally not one single part of that makes logical sense. 

Occam's razor is at play here: Johnson and his advisors are simply incompetent and have played the limited cards given to a weak, near minority administration left by May in a spectacularly bad manner. There's really nothing more to it than that. 

Not often there's anything worth quoting from your good self, but that has also been one of my highlights so far - and there have been too many proper belly laughs to remember.

Wee Saj putting on his earnest frown and pretending to be Santa, while in the SM world, his "giveaways" and "extras" were being exposed as recycled shite almost as quickly as he could mention them.

Meanwhile, the MSM simply ignored him, as their target demographic only responds to headlines invoking WWII or "hilarious" photoshops done by the WE lad.

[NotThePars]

Sajid Javid has a suspiciously bald head. Bond villain vibes.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

1 hour ago, Ross. said:

I agree that my fears are completely illogical. There's still just that nagging fear that there is some sleight of hand being played and the b*****ds will somehow wind up with exactly what they want.

I've got the same nagging doubts - I've always thought that the Labour Party leadership were playing a blinder by acting for the long-term, and even when I thought they'd made a mis-step or two hindsight has shown their strategy to be just about bang-on.

Johnson is provin g to be even less competent than I had dared hope, and their arrogance (and faith in JRM's knowledge of parliamentary arcana)_ has handed control to the Opposition.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

46 minutes ago, tirso said:

In 2017 both Tories and Labour said it would stand by the result... it's not the general public's fault they believed them.

 

And only one of those two parties has been in power for the last two years.

[NotThePars]

Car crash interview on Sky News with Femi Oluwole , some Brexit Party lass, and Kay Burley complete with TBP person accusing Burley of being a Remainer then lecturing her on democracy when she says she didn't vote.

[NotThePars]

Just now, MixuFixit said:

What is it that's weird about it? Is it like his head is too wide for his face and the baldness emphasises this?

 

It's too bald. 

[WhiteRoseKillie]

12 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Yes, a disgusting individual who uses the horrors of genocide to try and make herself relevant.

Lowest of the low....................

Left a Party she claimed to be institutionally racist for one which welcomes homophobes and Tories with open arms. Just so as we know where her moral compass points...

[tirso]

15 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

And only one of those two parties has been in power for the last two years.

Well it's over to the Labour party to get an extension, a better deal and leave then.

 

[Granny Danger]

28 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

Left a Party she claimed to be institutionally racist for one which welcomes homophobes and Tories with open arms. Just so as we know where her moral compass points...

She’s out on her arse next time around.

[beefybake]

3 hours ago, virginton said:

Aye the government is going out there to deliberately get horsed on a daily basis, have its majority drop into negative double figures, fail to win any media coverage for its blatant pre-election bribe while losing the initiative on when to call that vote. And the EU's obviously looking at all of this and is now suddenly desperate to dig him out of that hole regardless. Literally not one single part of that makes logical sense. 

Occam's razor is at play here: Johnson and his advisors are simply incompetent and have played the limited cards given to a weak, near minority administration left by May in a spectacularly bad manner. There's really nothing more to it than that. 

Unless , of course, somewhere in the overall scenario there is the Cunning Plan ......

I seem to recall seeing somewhere today, that someone asked MIchael Gove something like....

"If you knew then what you know now.., would you vote for Thersa May's deal...?".

Gove replied... "Yes..".

Sorry, I've misquoted. I think in that interchange Gove was meaning...   "After this is over, and Boris

is gone, I'm the man to bring the party together.."

Ever the backstabber.

Edited September 5, 2019 by beefybake

[WhiteRoseKillie]

She’s out on her arse next time around.

Only one of several arses which will be hitting pavement all over the country soon. This could be one of the most entertaining election nights ever.

[senorsoupe]

Probably found the best gif about Brexit so far

 

Edited September 5, 2019 by senorsoupe

[Detournement]

A journalist finally acknowledges that the bill doesn't rule out No Deal at all.

Quote

But the one thing Downing Street is adamant about is that Johnson will not request a Brexit delay in any shape or form. Should push come to shove, the prime minister could resign rather than go through with it. Johnson could suggest that the Queen ask Corbyn to request and sign any extension, thereby putting pressure on the remain alliance, and highlighting rifts over a so-called government of national unity. Such a move would also be seized on by Tories in an eventual election as proof Corbyn was against Brexit. In the topsy-turvy world of Brexit, the unthinkable is now possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/05/boris-johnson-election-brexit-delay-extension

I don't even see how he can be forced to resign. They will need to VONC him.