Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[welshbairn]

8 hours ago, Bob Mahelp said:

...and the UKIP-isation of the Tory party continues.

Good news for all decent people, as around 100K ageing Tory bigots get rid of the sensible centralists in a desperate attempt to rewind the country to the glory days of the Victorian era.

It'll destroy their party, which is great news all round.

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1111912246337245185

[Frankie S]

15 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said:

15 hours ago, welshbairn said:

It would be boringly interesting to go back through the thread and see if anyone predicted where we are now. I doubt it. I just see it as a sad but comic soap opera and try to predict what will happen in the next episode. Some people appear to think I'm under the illusion that I know what I'm talking about. Nobody does, including May. Come to think of it, here's a prediction, bookmark it. General Election on May 23rd. I anticipate humiliation.

First post. Me

Hate to rain on your parade but, given you said,

On 06/09/2016 at 23:09, John Lambies Doos said:

 

Let's face it, this Tory Govt has no intent on pulling out of EU. It will go on and on and on until lie of land changes!

and the PM, and thus the Tory government, divided though it is, has been trying to stick to their manifesto pledge to honour the result of the referendum by delivering her cloth-eared, uncompromising, monomaniacal version of Brexit, and has repeatedly been thwarted by Parliament, then you didn’t really get it right at all.

If you’d replaced ‘this Tory Govt’ with ‘Parliament’,  then you’d have been bang on.

 

[BawWatchin]

The man behind "fishing for leave" protest is white supremacist shock...

https://www.channel4.com/news/who-is-the-man-behind-the-fishing-for-leave-protest?fbclid=IwAR3syEQDZFcalIMbggNYb4m6Qg_pw3dGEu4pOrgDUK8QbZTgoeiFKamVZM4

[Granny Danger]

54 minutes ago, Mr Heliums said:

I've always been wary of a second referendum, both on democratic grounds – the first referendum and the subsequent Parliamentary election where both major parties endorsed its result – and the fact It's being promoted as the obvious solution while nobody seems to address the deeper question of why people voted Leave. It's not enough to say Leavers were racists and ignorant. It's the same blindness you see in the US where efforts to impeach Trump only mask the fact that he's a symptom of something much bigger that needs to be tackled.

But more practically, why would a second referendum be more decisive? We don't even know what the questions would be and even if it was reduced to a simple binary choice, what if Leave won again? We'd be in the same position, with the same sclerotic  Parliament.

A general election though, would mark a natural failure of  the Government to implement a manifesto commitment. It happens all the time. It's tried to implement Brexit and failed.  An election might produce a pro-Brexit majority or might not. I'll live with that chance.

People who quote the result of the first referendum as a reason for anything don’t deserve to be taken seriously.

 

[John Lambies Doos]

People who quote the result of the first referendum as a reason for anything don’t deserve to be taken seriously.
 

Nor do people who voted leave

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, John Lambies Doos said:

 Nor do people who voted leave

Yet I’m taken more seriously than you.

See if you can work out why.

 

[BawWatchin]

Just now, Granny Danger said:

Yet I’m taken more seriously than you.

You're really not. You've overtaken banana as the resident political jester on this forum.

[beefybake]

1 hour ago, Mr Heliums said:

I've always been wary of a second referendum, both on democratic grounds – the first referendum and the subsequent Parliamentary election where both major parties endorsed its result – and the fact It's being promoted as the obvious solution while nobody seems to address the deeper question of why people voted Leave. It's not enough to say Leavers were racists and ignorant. It's the same blindness you see in the US where efforts to impeach Trump only mask the fact that he's a symptom of something much bigger that needs to be tackled.

But more practically, why would a second referendum be more decisive? We don't even know what the questions would be and even if it was reduced to a simple binary choice, what if Leave won again? We'd be in the same position, with the same sclerotic  Parliament.

A general election though, would mark a natural failure of  the Government to implement a manifesto commitment. It happens all the time. It's tried to implement Brexit and failed.  An election might produce a pro-Brexit majority or might not. I'll live with that chance.

If Leave won again in another referendum, then the issue is straightforward. Everyone has had a chance to see the consequences.   Some of them are obvious right now,

and there will be much more.

The underlying reasons for why people voted to Leave ?   Never ending austerity corrodes society.  People on the fringes feel it first , and most directly. But really, 

it infects everyone. Unless you're sufficiently affluent to look on blithely.  The Tories deny all responsibility for massive upsurges in homelessness, people dying on the streets,

foodbanks, and all the rest.  Labour ? A significant chunk  of them have gone acquiesced to austerity, a hairbreadth away from Tories.  In these circumstances, it's not too surprising that the underlying reasons for why so many people voted Leave are not referred to very much in the public political discourse.

Edited March 30, 2019 by beefybake

[Granny Danger]

Guardian reporting that May will go for a fourth vote and call a GE if she loses!

a) Bercow won’t allow it;

b) if he did where does she expect the extra votes from?  Those who voted against her yesterday will not change now.

c) May cannot force a GE, it is not in her power.  If she goes to the queen the queen will see if anyone else can command a majority in the HoC first.

[LongTimeLurker]

Would be more worrying if it was the Torygraph or the Daily Heil reporting that, but wouldn't put it past her.

[welshbairn]

6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

c) May cannot force a GE, it is not in her power.  If she goes to the queen the queen will see if anyone else can command a majority in the HoC first.

If 2/3rds of MPs support her it doesn't go to the Queen. All the opposition parties apart from TIG would, so she just needs a hundred or so Tories. That's what happened in 2017.

[Granny Danger]

11 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

If 2/3rds of MPs support her it doesn't go to the Queen. All the opposition parties apart from TIG would, so she just needs a hundred or so Tories. That's what happened in 2017.

I know but I’m not sure she’ll get the hundred or so Tories.  

[Baxter Parp]

https://amp-theguardian-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/29/vote-leave-drops-appeal-against-fine-for-electoral-offences?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2F2019%2Fmar%2F29%2Fvote-leave-drops-appeal-against-fine-for-electoral-offences
Vote Leave drops appeal against fine for electoral offences

[dirty dingus]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Look at Grieve's voting record. He is a right wing arsehole (who happens to have property in France).

When you have Boris saying he is saddened by this and tha tGrieve is a true conservative is the kind of plaudits you wouldn't be wanting on your CV. 

Edited March 30, 2019 by dirty dingus

[tarapoa]

The underlying reasons for why people voted to Leave ?   Never ending austerity corrodes society.  People on the fringes feel it first

That is true, but tens of thousands of Syrian refugees pouring across the borders of Europe on a way trudge to Grimsby at the time of the vote didn’t help the Remain cause either.

[Sooky]

With the DUP saying they’d rather stay in the EU than risk Northern Ireland and its place in the Union, it would be hilarious if they ended up being the saviour of the Remainers...

[John Lambies Doos]

With the DUP saying they’d rather stay in the EU than risk Northern Ireland and its place in the Union, it would be hilarious if they ended up being the saviour of the Remainers...

That's what they are already doing

[O'Kelly Isley III]

That is true, but tens of thousands of Syrian refugees pouring across the borders of Europe on a way trudge to Grimsby at the time of the vote didn’t help the Remain cause either.

I'm sure the Scottish Government recently produced figures showing that the percentage of Syrian refugees domiciled in Scotland is proportionally much greater than the rest of the UK.

And the hypocrisy of the Leave voters is breathtaking; most of these idiots marching yesterday would be the first to complain if the Lidl in Boston started charging more for their vegetables if the cheap foreign labour fucked off, never mind the cash-in-hand Polish plumbers a lot of them will use.

[Donathan]

1 hour ago, Granny Danger said:

I know but I’m not sure she’ll get the hundred or so Tories.  

 

She absolutely will. There are a core base of 200 Tory MPs that have voted for her deal 3 times in a row, they'll support a GE because the Tories will presumably be running it on a manifesto of implementing the deal.

 

There's a workaround if she fails to convince 2/3, she can call a VONC in herself that would just need a simple majority to pass, after this goes through there's a 14 day period to install a new government and a GE is automatically triggered if no new government is installed. Seems highly unlikely some other government could command the support of the house so the GE would be inevitable.

 

If she just went straight to the Queen and resigned then the current government would remain in place and it would be a simple handover to David Lidington.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

 

 

 

If she just went straight to the Queen and resigned then the current government would remain in place and it would be a simple handover to David Lidington.

I don't think it would go automatically to him, he's not officially the deputy pm and Brexiteers think he's a communist Europhile.