Granny Danger Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 If Theresa May and the Brexiteers are so sure they have it right why are they so scared of a second referendum? If the result of a second referendum was Leave then they could have the hardest of Brexits and no one would have any grounds for complaint, not even the most strident remainers. From a political perspective it would give pro Brexiteers a huge boost and affirmation that all they were doing was carrying out the will of the people. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 6 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: If Theresa May and the Brexiteers are so sure they have it right why are they so scared of a second referendum? If the result of a second referendum was Leave then they could have the hardest of Brexits and no one would have any grounds for complaint, not even the most strident remainers. From a political perspective it would give pro Brexiteers a huge boost and affirmation that all they were doing was carrying out the will of the people. I hope Tig, SNP and the LibDems haven't fucked that possibility by voting on it last week without coordinating with Labour and Remainer Tories. Even the People's Vote lot said it was stupid timing. Though if May's deal fails again I think it will be that or a GE, more likely a GE with some fudge on the European elections. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: If Theresa May and the Brexiteers are so sure they have it right why are they so scared of a second referendum? If the result of a second referendum was Leave then they could have the hardest of Brexits and no one would have any grounds for complaint, not even the most strident remainers. From a political perspective it would give pro Brexiteers a huge boost and affirmation that all they were doing was carrying out the will of the people. I'd reckon that they're massively overestimating a public backlash with regards social unrest, rioting etc. The "advisers" (who will be a bunch of Eton educated mid 20 year olds who've never been outside of London) will have lovely graphs etc of how the violence will engulf the whole country and make the French protests seem like a garden party. They'll also have taken their "intelligence" from the Daily Mail & Express letters pages which will further convince them that the country is going to "erupt in civil war". Of course, for all of us who actually live in the real world we know that there will undoubtedly be small pockets of trouble throughout mostly the North West of England and this will just be the local neds who will use this as an excuse to carry on in the same manner they do after an England match but after a day or two it will all be forgotten..................... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Steele Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 21 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: If Theresa May and the Brexiteers are so sure they have it right why are they so scared of a second referendum? If the result of a second referendum was Leave then they could have the hardest of Brexits and no one would have any grounds for complaint, not even the most strident remainers. From a political perspective it would give pro Brexiteers a huge boost and affirmation that all they were doing was carrying out the will of the people. I wonder if blind ideology rules out another Brexit referendum. The idea of UK still being a major player in the world seems to run through the topTories. But perhaps they are also looking at Scotland. Another Leave win bolsters the "will of the people" argument but they can't then say no to another Indyref and as Brexit problems kick in, surely given a chance to leave a dysfunctional UK it would be grabbed with both hands. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post vikingTON Posted March 21, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted March 21, 2019 It's been nearly three fucking years now and some people still think that there is some 'ideology' underpinning the government as opposed to 'just cling to my job for as long as possible and stop my party from imploding'. 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 9 hours ago, Donathan said: May is a complete lame duck PM. Genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if MV3 loses by an even bigger margin the first two The groups that prefer No Deal to May's Deal (DUP and ERG) are not likely to budge at this stage, so Labour are the key. If it is highly credible that No Deal is the only alternative at that point I strongly suspect they will cave in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 You would hope that if it came to a ‘May’s Deal v No Deal’, if May genuinely refused to back down we’d have a confidence vote which would sail through, and then a revocation of Article 50. That’s the rational response though, and literally nothing about this whole process has been rational. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Check out @davidschneider’s Tweet: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, welshbairn said: I hope Tig, SNP and the LibDems haven't fucked that possibility by voting on it last week without coordinating with Labour and Remainer Tories. Even the People's Vote lot said it was stupid timing. Though if May's deal fails again I think it will be that or a GE, more likely a GE with some fudge on the European elections. It would be easy enough to change the terms to allow another Parliamentary vote particularly if it is linked to May’s deal which, in my opinion, is the most tactically astute approach. 1 hour ago, WATTOO said: I'd reckon that they're massively overestimating a public backlash with regards social unrest, rioting etc. The "advisers" (who will be a bunch of Eton educated mid 20 year olds who've never been outside of London) will have lovely graphs etc of how the violence will engulf the whole country and make the French protests seem like a garden party. They'll also have taken their "intelligence" from the Daily Mail & Express letters pages which will further convince them that the country is going to "erupt in civil war". Of course, for all of us who actually live in the real world we know that there will undoubtedly be small pockets of trouble throughout mostly the North West of England and this will just be the local neds who will use this as an excuse to carry on in the same manner they do after an England match but after a day or two it will all be forgotten..................... There won’t be a public backlash just a few incandescent Gammons. The Tories are more worried about losing votes to UKIP2. 29 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: The groups that prefer No Deal to May's Deal (DUP and ERG) are not likely to budge at this stage, so Labour are the key. If it is highly credible that No Deal is the only alternative at that point I strongly suspect they will cave in. Labour WILL NOT cave; that’s a certainty. A number of individual Labour MPs may defy the party whip and support May at which point they should be expelled from the Labour Party. The big question is how many we are talking about. May’s arrogance yesterday has probably reduced support amongst Labour dissidents rather than increasing it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 Tin hats but I think the general points raised in this Twitter thread are more relevant now than they've ever been. I genuinely get the impression that the extension request was pretty much designed and crafted to certainly fail. Whilst there may have been a vague notion of sorting it out with a deal, the whole process has basically just been to gaslight 50% of the more gullible (but likely voters - very very important that) population into just inflicting the blame on the EU and being thick enough to buy this British exceptionalism bullshit. The Murdoch press have spent decades peddling and playing to those sorts of ideas - there's no reason to stop now. I really don't see a way out from any of this: Second referendum May's deal - Below OR Remain - Huge outrage from the press and a consolidation of 30-40% of voters behind the Brexit issue and it to be perpetually debated in future elections. The Tory membership will unite in fury and not forget this - any future Tory PM would probably be somehow more dysfunctional in Europe than before (perhaps having a bad impact across the union). I'd say a future referendum would again be inevitable and we'd see a gradual slog with manufacturers letting their projects come to a natural close (as is already happening at some rate in Europe to some degree) May's deal No plan outlined for the next stage of trade negotiations which can be vetoed by one single country (as opposed to the WA which is what we're at now and the easy part) and no solution to the backstop. A new Tory PM to come in and repeat the same process as now and end up with no way to leave the backstop and no distinctly different arrangement to the transition. Outrage from the ERG people and Brexiteers. The press gives great credence to these views of it being a betrayal and extreme ideas like breaking international treaties to achieve the 'no deal' that they claim 52% of people voted for become mainstream with 30-40% of the population. 'Brexit would have been good if managed correctly and you were all right about it being a great idea, we'll sort it out' - a very easy narrative that voters will be happy to hang to and not admit they are wrong Parliament (if given the means) and/or executive demonstrate support for an EFTA/EEA type deceleration We fly through this process in the next few months and then start the process of the trade deal which is achieved fairly easily with the EU Huge backlash. We've just kept freedom of movement and it isn't a real Brexit! The leave campaign are supported by the same characters as now and we again see a movement to leave the deal becoming popular It's dramatic to say but I really believe that the moment this vote was called, British democracy was absolutely fucked. The English press have fed their population delusions of grandeur for generations and the Commons has always been vulnerable to relatively small groups of people able to hijack the agenda and push leaders in certain directions. Before, Blair engineered a movement to combat this in some extent (i.e. placating this core group a bit) which did this effectively but his legacy and betrayals destroyed that; although there are some remnants there in the People's Vote, they really have been totally destroyed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SandyCromarty Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Granny Danger said: If Theresa May and the Brexiteers are so sure they have it right why are they so scared of a second referendum? If the result of a second referendum was Leave then they could have the hardest of Brexits and no one would have any grounds for complaint, not even the most strident remainers. From a political perspective it would give pro Brexiteers a huge boost and affirmation that all they were doing was carrying out the will of the people. As it would would give us Scots the grounds for a second referendum given that as a country within the UK framework we voted remain. Further I have no doubt that the Leave campaign would want a third referendum on Brexit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 12 hours ago, Londonwell said: Could we possibly just lock May and Corbyn in a room and leave them there? They might breed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 minutes ago, SandyCromarty said: As it would would give us Scots the grounds for a second referendum given that as a country within the UK framework we voted remain. Further I have no doubt that the Leave campaign would want a third referendum on Brexit. ^^This. And that wouldn't necessarily be the end of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 8 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: They might breed. What a horrible image; you are a very sick person. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 May has to go. She's completely fucked this up and last night was the glittering turd on the dunghill. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 The result of the HMRC case against Lorraine Kelly just perfectly sums up everything that's wrong with this country and our system where the wealthy are given a free lunch at the expense of the ordinary low paid worker. This is the type of thing which brought about Brexit in the first place but of course the EU has absolutely nothing to do with this but sadly the misinformed public don't quite get this and just blame every perceived negative on the EU. Total shambles. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted March 21, 2019 Author Share Posted March 21, 2019 Some Finnish bint on sky news, vice president of EU council saying that the EU will very likely grant a long extension at next week, yet to be scheduled, EU emergency summit. She then also stated that this would allow time for a second referendum. So there you go Gammonos. It's May's deal or f**k all Brexit.. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Blue-Toon said: Will it get above 17.4 million? 17.4 million whats? People who voted for May's deal? No Deal? In the single market or out of it? Or the customs union? What? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparky88 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 16 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: ^^This. And that wouldn't necessarily be the end of it. It's why a second referendum isn't a great idea. It might even result in No Deal. Revoking Article 50 is the only way to go. A good start might extending article 50 for a while. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDuffman Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 20 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: 17.4 million whats? People who voted for May's deal? No Deal? In the single market or out of it? Or the customs union? What? Try reading the post above the one you have quoted 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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