Guest Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 42 minutes ago, Cowden Cowboy said: Bring back Blair or Thatcher - leaders who actually led Things are bad, but they're not that bad.............. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I genuinely don't think there was an alternative to this. Brexit as a concept is so fucking devisive. May is absolutely mental. Surely there can't ever have been a more stubborn leader?Corbyn has a very difficult fence to try and sit on. He can't come down on one side or the other (as his party and their voters are as divided as the Tories) - but he's fucking up the pr. It was always going to be this depressing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 There has not been a single poll that shows public support for May’s deal. Quite the reverse. She has completely ignored this. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA Baracus Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 But..but..folk chanted Corbyn's name last summer! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, pandarilla said: I genuinely don't think there was an alternative to this. Brexit as a concept is so fucking devisive. May is absolutely mental. Surely there can't ever have been a more stubborn leader? Corbyn has a very difficult fence to try and sit on. He can't come down on one side or the other (as his party and their voters are as divided as the Tories) - but he's fucking up the pr. It was always going to be this depressing. May and Corbyn are being blamed for it all, but the individual MPs are doing fuckall apart from complaining how shite things are, Tony Benn's son does my head in with his indicative votes shite, why doesn't he just suggest something better than May and persuade people to vote for it? He doesn't have to be on telly to do it. Same as that oh so reasonable Dominic Grieve c**t. Edited March 20, 2019 by welshbairn 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I have written to my Labour MP tonight suggesting in no uncertain terms that he vote to reject May’s deal again for the third time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Remain well in the lead if a second referendum. Confirms that all these Gammony vox pops are nonsense. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-second-referendum-deal-opinion-poll-theresa-may-a8831241.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DublinMagyar Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 I have written to my Labour MP tonight suggesting in no uncertain terms that he vote to reject May’s deal again for the third time. 'Woman....bring me the parchment and my good quill!' 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherrif John Bunnell Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Fair play to Comrade Jezza for not meeting TIG until they are transparent about who is funding them. I'm sure Hezbollah and the IRA provided him with a detailed hierarchy of leadership and a full set of audited accounts before he met with them. Anyway, we all know who really funds TIG: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pandarilla Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 Fair play to Comrade Jezza for not meeting TIG until they are transparent about who is funding them. I'm sure Hezbollah and the IRA provided him with a detailed hierarchy of leadership and a full set of audited accounts before he met with them. Anyway, we all know who really funds TIG:That's a weak comparison though. These are entirely different contexts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidane's child Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said: Fair play to Comrade Jezza for not meeting TIG until they are transparent about who is funding them. I'm sure Hezbollah and the IRA provided him with a detailed hierarchy of leadership and a full set of audited accounts before he met with them. Anyway, we all know who really funds TIG: Hide contents The absolute nick of this post btw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 May and Corbyn are being blamed for it all, but the individual MPs are doing fuckall apart from complaining how shite things are, Tony Benn's son does my head in with his indicative votes shite, why doesn't he just suggest something better than May and persuade people to vote for it? He doesn't have to be on telly to do it. Same as that oh so reasonable Dominic Grieve c**t. The indicative votes thing is hugely important though.Parliament can't do anything as the government set the agenda so it's really just a case of trying to find whatever relevance they can to bills and trying to produce substantial amendments. That's then hugely difficult when you consider that the government can control the timing of what is going - opposition leaders can't always whip in an instant, they've got their own internal challenges and pressures.If Benn's amendment went through, parliament could have voted on a declaration on a single outcome and actually had the ability to legislate to match it. A team could have went to Brussels if they could demonstrate their plan had support and actually do something tangible.The big problem for Labour and their plan is whilst it's viable to attach to the WA deal in theory, the next stage of negotiations is going to be very challenging so there's a lot more they'd like in there now as it may be harder in the future (e.g. Corbyn fancies this workers alignment, there could maybe have been something drawn up which gives some level of decision making).If May's deal goes through, it just means we'll spend another couple of years of a new Tory PM pandering to all sides of parliament and then failing to beat the backstop loop and us just continuing the uncertainty for the next decade. If parliament get the mechanism to vote on something tangible as a basis to go back into the WA and/or declare a goal for the next process, it's actually a solution and gives us a chance to close it.What I think people forget is this is meant to be the easy stage. I'd prefer May's deal to nothing but if we're entering the difficult part with no agreed framework that can pass the Commons, it's not going to go top well.I suspect that the compromise is maybe almost there in principle but it's been difficult to express will and losing that Benn amendment has maybe fucked it, even if they can get a really solid majority on it in favour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Archer (Raconteur) Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Zen Archer said: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584 I thought that for Article 50 to be revoked it would have had to be done by March 29. Can it be extended then revoked? Edited March 20, 2019 by ICTJohnboy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 (edited) 13 minutes ago, harry94 said: The indicative votes thing is hugely important though. Parliament can't do anything as the government set the agenda so it's really just a case of trying to find whatever relevance they can to bills and trying to produce substantial amendments. That's then hugely difficult when you consider that the government can control the timing of what is going - opposition leaders can't always whip in an instant, they've got their own internal challenges and pressures. If Benn's amendment went through, parliament could have voted on a declaration on a single outcome and actually had the ability to legislate to match it. A team could have went to Brussels if they could demonstrate their plan had support and actually do something tangible. The big problem for Labour and their plan is whilst it's viable to attach to the WA deal in theory, the next stage of negotiations is going to be very challenging so there's a lot more they'd like in there now as it may be harder in the future (e.g. Corbyn fancies this workers alignment, there could maybe have been something drawn up which gives some level of decision making). If May's deal goes through, it just means we'll spend another couple of years of a new Tory PM pandering to all sides of parliament and then failing to beat the backstop loop and us just continuing the uncertainty for the next decade. If parliament get the mechanism to vote on something tangible as a basis to go back into the WA and/or declare a goal for the next process, it's actually a solution and gives us a chance to close it. What I think people forget is this is meant to be the easy stage. I'd prefer May's deal to nothing but if we're entering the difficult part with no agreed framework that can pass the Commons, it's not going to go top well. I suspect that the compromise is maybe almost there in principle but it's been difficult to express will and losing that Benn amendment has maybe fucked it, even if they can get a really solid majority on it in favour. There's no reason why MPs who are against No Deal and May's deal couldn't have got together and agreed a common alternative, and brought it in as a binding amendment or something. All they're interested in is spouting off on TV and in Parliament. All Labour's plan would take is an adjustment to the Political Declaration. Edited March 20, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTG Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Mark Connolly said: If Corbyn was a P&B poster, he'd definitely be involved in a dotting war. He'd be in my ignore list along with his fanboy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HibsFan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 20 minutes ago, Sherrif John Bunnell said: Fair play to Comrade Jezza for not meeting TIG until they are transparent about who is funding them. I'm sure Hezbollah and the IRA provided him with a detailed hierarchy of leadership and a full set of audited accounts before he met with them. Anyway, we all know who really funds TIG: Reveal hidden contents 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donathan Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 May is a complete lame duck PM. Genuinely wouldn’t surprise me if MV3 loses by an even bigger margin the first two 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harry94 Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 There's no reason why MPs who are against No Deal and May's deal couldn't have got together and agreed a common alternative, and brought it in as a binding amendment or something. All they're interested in is spouting off on TV and in Parliament.The issue is that if they want a particular solution, there isn't really a way that they have to guarantee it as binding and even amendments themselves are a complex science.Then the big killer is that this isn't the UK government negotiating with itself, there's an external party involved and even with deceleration of a position, it will require other bits of negotiation that will need legislated on here. If there's no power to do that and no way to demonstrate confidence for an idea, it's hard to see how it proceeds.I'm not saying they've handled the process well but they are very restricted and although we've got a parliamentary democracy, it is hugely reliant on a functional government that can command confidence on key votes. The coalition bringing in FTPA, and how it impacts this situation, will be the subject of a PhD thesis or two in years to come I'm sure.I think if they weren't worried about their own career aspirations, the common sense thing would have been a cross party government to sort it out with a compromise quickly but human nature is that people don't like voting to kill their careers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 20, 2019 Share Posted March 20, 2019 12 minutes ago, HTG said: He'd be in my ignore list along with his fanboy. I would have reported him for anti-semitism. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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