renton Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, LongTimeLurker said: The massive miscalculation was really David Cameron's in holding the two referenda in the manner in which he did. The independence referendum should have been a warning signal that the side with the rational arguments could lose the Brexit one to the side with the irrational emotional appeal. Yes weren't the side screaming about history and turning children into foreigners, tbf. You are confusing technical arguments with rational ones. No was king of the irrational fearmongering. Cameron's misjudgement was believing that No had been a tremendous success when it haemorrhaged 15 to 20 points of support to a movement that insisted on playing nice, and then going up against people as willing to indulge irrational dog whistle politics as his own side had been in Scotland. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 6 hours ago, welshbairn said: Except from what I've seen the UUP haven't diverted from the DUP position by a bawhair. Missed opportunity imo.... It would be difficult for any Unionist party to support the back stop, because it is transparently obviously the EU saying that we will only let you leave easily if you leave NI with us so that there is no land border involved. The NI back stop is expected to be permanent so cannot be made time-limited, because that doesn't fit the agenda of either Brussels or Westminster moving forward. The ERG and the DUP have very different core goals on what they want to achieve, so most of the ERG types will no doubt throw Ulster Unionism under the bus next week. The question is more whether all of them will and how many Labour rebels will back the deal. Hopefully, May's deal gets rejected once and for all, because I think there is a good chance now that Brexit can be fully reversed after a long extension. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: EU structural funds lost by nation/region. https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7886 According to the link we have a net contribution of £8.9bn but according to your map we get £9.3 bn back. Seems like a good deal to me. ETA and why has the north of Scotland been cut off your map? Typical central belt bias. Edited March 16, 2019 by Suspect Device 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7886 According to the link we have a net contribution of £8.9bn but according to your map we get £9.3 bn back. Seems like a good deal to me. ETA and why has the north of Scotland been cut off your map? Typical central belt bias. Probably making the usual central belt assumption that everyone knows where it is, but no one wants to go there. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7886 According to the link we have a net contribution of £8.9bn but according to your map we get £9.3 bn back. Seems like a good deal to me. ETA and why has the north of Scotland been cut off your map? Typical central belt bias.Net contribution is the amount we pay net of the money we get back. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Baxter Parp said: EU structural funds lost by nation/region. Ach! I'm sure wee Nic will recoup that with more tax rises. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Ach! I'm sure wee Nic will recoup that with more tax rises. How will wee Theresa recoup that? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Just now, Baxter Parp said: Just now, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said: Ach! I'm sure wee Nic will recoup that with more tax rises. How will wee Theresa recoup that? I don't think she would be all that bothered. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melanius Mullarkey Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Wales voted leave eh? Lol. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 I don't think she would be all that bothered.Yes, you're right, wee Nicola is a far more responsible and effective politician. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Baxter Parp said: 43 minutes ago, Suspect Device said: https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7886 According to the link we have a net contribution of £8.9bn but according to your map we get £9.3 bn back. Seems like a good deal to me. ETA and why has the north of Scotland been cut off your map? Typical central belt bias. Net contribution is the amount we pay net of the money we get back. Exactly. We get more than half the money back that we pay in. That seems like a good deal. Except that we could argue that it wastes a lot on paper shufflers and if we cut out the middleman we could just spend the same amount in those areas without the money merry-go-round. Not sure we would though. Then the argument is that the EU spends our money more fairly than the UK government. Wales needs it more than London for instance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 1 minute ago, Suspect Device said: Exactly. We get more than half the money back that we pay in. That seems like a good deal. Except that we could argue that it wastes a lot on paper shufflers and if we cut out the middleman we could just spend the same amount in those areas without the money merry-go-round. Not sure we would though. Then the argument is that the EU spends our money more fairly than the UK government. Wales needs it more than London for instance. Make no mistake, the areas of the U.K. most in need will no longer get it. I don’t believe for one minute that the money we save by not paying into the EU will all be spent anywhere in the country. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Make no mistake, the areas of the U.K. most in need will no longer get it. I don’t believe for one minute that the money we save by not paying into the EU will all be spent anywhere in the country. It does happen in Scotland as well. The money gets spent where the party in power reckons they'll get the most votes back. Happens in the UK where the party in power will channel money where they reckon it'll buy them votes. The EU doesn't have that problem. Very few folk give a shite enough about European elections so I assume that is why they don't have to buy votes. That would be one pro for staying in the EU. Possibly not enough to change my mind but another to chalk up in the EU's favour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 14 minutes ago, Melanius Mullarkey said: Wales voted leave eh? Lol. Somebody in the Leave campaign didn't do a very good job in explaining that they are net beneficiaries. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inanimate Carbon Rod Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Wales voted leave eh? Lol.I remember at the time of the vote, a vox pop with a woman in wales who said she voted no because the local authority closed the public toilets on the high street. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baxter Parp Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Exactly. We get more than half the money back that we pay in. That seems like a good deal. Except that we could argue that it wastes a lot on paper shufflers and if we cut out the middleman we could just spend the same amount in those areas without the money merry-go-round. Not sure we would though. Then the argument is that the EU spends our money more fairly than the UK government. Wales needs it more than London for instance.The other argument is that our net contribution to the EU is worth it for the advantages of being in the EU. Theresa May would just spend any surplus on London and the Home Counties. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comrie Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Watched a video on Ebbw Vale (I think) and one of the main reasons they didn't vote remain despite being major beneficiaries from the EU is that the money they received wasn't being spent on things that improved their lives. It's all very well having a great motorway running past you if the town you live in has absolutely nothing of worth in it. I think the way EU money got spent should have been used more effectively but the idea they came out with is that "it can't get any worse" is laughable, as Westminster are just going to cut what little they have already if given the chance. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said: I remember at the time of the vote, a vox pop with a woman in wales who said she voted no because the local authority closed the public toilets on the high street. Was she taking the piss? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkyblue2 Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 So we should be in the EU because they spend our money better than us? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 If true these c***s must be immediately expelled from the Labour Party. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-talks-labour-theresa-may-cabinet-eu-a8825421.html 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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