Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[O'Kelly Isley III]

You could stop posting on here as a form of protest.

You see, this is what happens..... deprived of any juicy tidbits we all start savaging each other like wild dogs in the Serengeti.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

On 2/25/2019 at 10:40, harry94 said:

The trade deal has always been possible to negotiate the moment the withdrawal agreement is ratified. I don't think anything has changed there. There was also willingness really early on to be quite flexible and push in some stuff to the withdrawal agreement if it helped May domestically, there is a fair bit in there that was quite surprising and this is obviously something helpful if it's easier to get through the EU (as the WA is just a majority vote).

The extension stuff has had 2021 mooted for a while as it's the date logical with their budgeting etc and a few weeks won't really do anything. We'll see how it plays out but I still doubt that the EU are just going to throw an extension on the table unless there is a material change in circumstances (a change in red lines, referendum, general election, change in government or peoples assemblies - just something to change how we proceed). I think they are tired of our shite tbh.

I'm definitely tired of our shite.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

On 2/25/2019 at 13:20, Granny Danger said:

If there was a GE none of the parties would get away with fudging the Brexit issue IMO.  They would have to make their positions clear or suffer the consequences during the campaign.

At the last Labour conference delegates passed a composite motion in good faith on the basis that Corbyn would respect it.  I can’t see them being so naive again and given the overwhelming opposition to Brexit by Labour Party members any attempt to tacitly support Brexit won’t make it into the manifesto.

Politicians can fudge anything they chose to fudge.  With aplomb (© Jonathan Pearce).

The Middle England of 2019 are going to vote for Corbyn's Labour?  Really?

 

 

[Donathan]

2 minutes ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

Politicians can fudge anything they chose to fudge.  With aplomb (© Jonathan Pearce).

The Middle England of 2019 are going to vote for Corbyn's Labour?  Really?

 

 

 

Call me crazy, but the "middle England" seem less "Brexity" than they did a year or two ago. I'm not sure Corbyn will get the centrists out, but I reckon the Tory vote share would tumble with smaller parties doing better and overall turnout being pretty low. May allow Corbyn to sneak in with a coalition.

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

 

Call me crazy, but the "middle England" seem less "Brexity" than they did a year or two ago. I'm not sure Corbyn will get the centrists out, but I reckon the Tory vote share would tumble with smaller parties doing better and overall turnout being pretty low. May allow Corbyn to sneak in with a coalition.

Nice thought, but with FPTP it's still going to be a Tory majority. 

[Donathan]

1 minute ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

Nice thought, but with FPTP it's still going to be a Tory majority. 

 

They didn't even get one two years ago when everyone thought they were quids in

[oldbitterandgrumpy]

1 minute ago, Donathan said:

 

They didn't even get one two years ago when everyone thought they were quids in

They got more seats than Labour, and Corbyn's popularity peaked at the last election. 

 

[Granny Danger]

5 hours ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

They got more seats than Labour, and Corbyn's popularity peaked at the last election. 

 

And people wrote Corbyn off at the last election, just like you’re doing now.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

6 hours ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said:

They got more seats than Labour, and Corbyn's popularity peaked at the last election. 

 

 

50 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

And people wrote Corbyn off at the last election, just like you’re doing now.

As a Labour member, I am still pretty confident of our prospects at a GE. Even the "Thatcher was God" ex-squaddies I work with are getting pissed off with the Tories, and I'm getting from most undecided people a feeling of "nobody could fúck us as badly as this lot". MSM smears are losing traction - especially as they are becoming more and more transparently false for the most part. The odd actual incident of AS might have helped their cause, but more people are actually asking why Corbyn, Williamson et al  are anti-semitic rather than just accept that they are. And the more they ask for facts, the more they find out and the lower the credibility of the BBC, Mail, Guardian, etc. Vague allegations don't really hold much water when stacked up against, for instance, Corbyn's actual life history.

One factor I'm hearing increasingly is that all these voters have kids and grandkids. These youngsters are going to really hate our generation for screwing up their future (and the planet's). I reckon there'll be a few voting so they can say "I did what I could" when it all comes crashing down.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

In addition to the above - while many young people - first-time voters and younger - were swept up in the "oooh, Jeremy Corbyn" personality movement, this very movement brought them into contact with those who question the status quo, have ideas for a better world, and the committment to improve not only their own lives but those of others (yer actual "many"). I'm certainly seeing a decrease in average age at rallies and events such as Durham miners', and at CLP meetings.

This is what the Establishment really fears - a generation unwilling to simply believe what they're told. Two of my four daughters have joined the Party in the last couple of years, and they're not just parroting ideas their old Dad has taught them - I'm proud to say they're developing their own path within the movement, and the one who hasn't yet got kids to care for is out and organising, because "it's fun, and just the right thing to do". I just wish their Mother would get involved - but she's coming to the Big meeting with our branch this year, so maybe she'll get inspired too...

[git-intae-thum]

^^^^

All maybe all true in rUK

But SLAB in Scotland are a washed out shower of wrong uns who will continue to side with their tory chums.

Unelectable until they purge their britnat roaster element.

 

[git-intae-thum]

The most recent example being Leonards strong voice of commitment to tory Brexit.......

the day before Corbyn undermined him and finally backed a peoples vote

Edited March 1, 2019 by git-intae-thum

[btb]

Could Labour muster enough votes at Westminster to get a second referendum - a straight Yes/No on May's deal?

Would people be tempted to vote yes just to get the business finished?

Quote

Labour could let May's Brexit deal pass in return for second referendum

Amendment proposed by backbenchers would see party abstain on PM’s deal as long as it is put to a public vote 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/labour-moving-towards-plan-to-let-mays-brexit-deal-pass-if-it-faces-public-vote

Edited March 1, 2019 by btb

[O'Kelly Isley III]

In addition to the above - while many young people - first-time voters and younger - were swept up in the "oooh, Jeremy Corbyn" personality movement, this very movement brought them into contact with those who question the status quo, have ideas for a better world, and the committment to improve not only their own lives but those of others (yer actual "many"). I'm certainly seeing a decrease in average age at rallies and events such as Durham miners', and at CLP meetings.
This is what the Establishment really fears - a generation unwilling to simply believe what they're told. Two of my four daughters have joined the Party in the last couple of years, and they're not just parroting ideas their old Dad has taught them - I'm proud to say they're developing their own path within the movement, and the one who hasn't yet got kids to care for is out and organising, because "it's fun, and just the right thing to do". I just wish their Mother would get involved - but she's coming to the Big meeting with our branch this year, so maybe she'll get inspired too...

Whilst I applaud your sentiments I think your analysis strays into wishful thinking. A patient lying I'll in bed is unwilling to kick the nurse and that is how a lot of the electorate views the Tories.

I'm a former Labour voter but I'd have real problems voting for a Corbyn-led party; not because of all the usual shit but because I consider him to be an utterly lamentable leader who has assembled a shadow cabinet of mediocrity.

What I'm really saying is that faced with a dismal choice most voters will stick with their default position. And history is not on Labour's side.

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, btb said:

Could Labour muster enough votes at Westminster to get a second referendum - a straight Yes/No on May's deal?

Would people be tempted to vote yes just to get the business finished?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/feb/28/labour-moving-towards-plan-to-let-mays-brexit-deal-pass-if-it-faces-public-vote

I would be very much in favour of this as a way forward if it’s a straightforward choice between May’s ‘final’ deal (which will effectively the one she’s already put to the Commons) and Remain.

Amongst other things it would cause big splits in the Conservative Party.

 

[NotThePars]

Whilst I applaud your sentiments I think your analysis strays into wishful thinking. A patient lying I'll in bed is unwilling to kick the nurse and that is how a lot of the electorate views the Tories.

 

I'm a former Labour voter but I'd have real problems voting for a Corbyn-led party; not because of all the usual shit but because I consider him to be an utterly lamentable leader who has assembled a shadow cabinet of mediocrity.

 

What I'm really saying is that faced with a dismal choice most voters will stick with their default position. And history is not on Labour's side.

 

 

That site suggests there’s 79 seats that require less than a 5% swing. Even if the tiny SNP majorities hold and they recover some of their lost seats then that still benefits any prospective Labour coalition. I’ve said it before but anyone seriously calling how the makeup of the next parliament will likely look is at it.

 

http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour

 

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

 

 
That site suggests there’s 79 seats that require less than a 5% swing. Even if the tiny SNP majorities hold and they recover some of their lost seats then that still benefits any prospective Labour coalition. I’ve said it before but anyone seriously calling how the makeup of the next parliament will likely look is at it.
 
http://www.electionpolling.co.uk/battleground/targets/labour
 

Remember though some of those small majorities came about due to the yoons throwing everything at tactical voting.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

Whilst I applaud your sentiments I think your analysis strays into wishful thinking. A patient lying I'll in bed is unwilling to kick the nurse and that is how a lot of the electorate views the Tories.

I'm a former Labour voter but I'd have real problems voting for a Corbyn-led party; not because of all the usual shit but because I consider him to be an utterly lamentable leader who has assembled a shadow cabinet of mediocrity.

What I'm really saying is that faced with a dismal choice most voters will stick with their default position. And history is not on Labour's side.

What if the nurse is Beverley Allitt?

[btb]

The amount of "just in case" money we've wasted on Brexit is erm, unbelievabe, well if only it was, although no doubt Grayling will survive even this!

Quote

Government pays Eurotunnel £33m over Brexit ferry case

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47414699

[Guest]

3 hours ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

 

As a Labour member, I am still pretty confident of our prospects at a GE. Even the "Thatcher was God" ex-squaddies I work with are getting pissed off with the Tories, and I'm getting from most undecided people a feeling of "nobody could fúck us as badly as this lot". MSM smears are losing traction - especially as they are becoming more and more transparently false for the most part. The odd actual incident of AS might have helped their cause, but more people are actually asking why Corbyn, Williamson et al  are anti-semitic rather than just accept that they are. And the more they ask for facts, the more they find out and the lower the credibility of the BBC, Mail, Guardian, etc. Vague allegations don't really hold much water when stacked up against, for instance, Corbyn's actual life history.

One factor I'm hearing increasingly is that all these voters have kids and grandkids. These youngsters are going to really hate our generation for screwing up their future (and the planet's). I reckon there'll be a few voting so they can say "I did what I could" when it all comes crashing down.

The biggest problem Labour have at the moment is that they are being sabotaged by their own Deputy Leader and some other notable "names" within the party, until such times as these people are either removed or silenced then they really have no chance of winning an election.

Corbyn appearing weak and indecisive is one thing but the Centre right brazenly pursuing their own personal agendas is quite another and the damage being done to the party should not be underestimated...........