oldbitterandgrumpy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: You’re entitled to your cynicism, it’s probably justified, but I get annoyed when politicians claim that they know what Leave voters voted for. They don’t. Of course they don't. They generalise. They manipulate statistics. They climb on bandwagons. They basically do what politicians do. Aye, I suppose that is a bit cynical. But trying to explain the benefits of the EU to a Brexiteer or the possible advantages of Independence to a Unionist is an impossible uphill struggle, made all the more difficult in the Social Media age. f**k me, cynical and defeatist. I've got to get out more. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, cyderspaceman said: The brexiters think it will hurt everyone more than them. "They need our tourists cash" "They need to sell us their cars" "They need us to buy their Champagne" "They need our military intelligence" etc, etc. What sort of an attitude is this? No, really, what is the psychological reason behind statements like this? I'm sure there is one but not being a psychologist, all I can think of is "scared shitless and whistling in the dark". It just ties in with their superiority complex based upon nothing other than fantasy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I'm not sure if May is playing along with the ERG or doesn't realise that they'll never vote for whatever deal comes back from Brussels, even if she miraculously gets a concession. The back stop is a red herring, there are loads of other reasons they hate the deal and want to keep stalling and p***k teasing with the Maybot until we crash out. They know that if we get a withdrawal deal there will be 2 or three years at least to persuade the public and MPs that a close relationship with the EU would be far better than going on our own, maybe even rejoining on certain conditions, like fully using our existing powers to control immigration from the EU and maybe some more opt outs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 9 minutes ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said: Supporting Clach keeps me sane. And at least I don't live in Burnley. You've got to put up with extreme Brexit shit every day. Good luck with that. Actually I've just moved from Burnley 10 miles along the road to the up-market fashionable town of Accrington. I will admit though that extreme Brexit shit is just as prevalent here. Do they still have that old boy on the PA system at Clach making announcements like : "Sorry we've nae music the day. The record player's nae workin' again" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbitterandgrumpy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 20 minutes ago, cyderspaceman said: If the people commenting in the Express, Mail, Sun, Telegraph are real and not just 'Russian trollbots' then I genuinely despair. They chunter on about WTO , for example, without knowing what they are talking about. No-one seems interested in educating them. (except me ) Always has been. That's why we live in a capitalist sytem. Social media should mean we are better informed but you're right, it has had the opposite effect. But what if the other 'views' sre just plain wrong , stupid , misinformed and daft? Enter the Mail comments section at your peril. If they are real, and some of them must be, they are totally beyond parody. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, oldbitterandgrumpy said: Of course they don't. They generalise. They manipulate statistics. They climb on bandwagons. They basically do what politicians do. Aye, I suppose that is a bit cynical. But trying to explain the benefits of the EU to a Brexiteer or the possible advantages of Independence to a Unionist is an impossible uphill struggle, made all the more difficult in the Social Media age. f**k me, cynical and defeatist. I've got to get out more. The majority of politicians nowadays are nothing more than careerist PR people who have no calling as it were, no principles, no ideologies and basically just see their job as a means to skip a few rungs of the ladder in the private sector. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just now, oldbitterandgrumpy said: Enter the Mail comments section at your peril. If they are real, and some of them must be, they are totally beyond parody. You have to bear in mind that anyone who comments below the line of any article on the internet has a brain disease. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Actually I've just moved from Burnley 10 miles along the road to the up-market fashionable town of Accrington. I will admit though that extreme Brexit shit is just as prevalent here. Do they still have that old boy on the PA system at Clach making announcements like : "Sorry we've nae music the day. The record player's nae workin' again" Have you been to see Stanley yet? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbitterandgrumpy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, ICTJohnboy said: Actually I've just moved from Burnley 10 miles along the road to the up-market fashionable town of Accrington. I will admit though that extreme Brexit shit is just as prevalent here. Do they still have that old boy on the PA system at Clach making announcements like : "Sorry we've nae music the day. The record player's nae workin' again" Haven't lived in Inverness for about 20 years, so rarely get to Grant Street. Sounds like a Clach thing though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strichener Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Gaz said: Mind that time we were a nation of craven lickspittles who voted to keep us in this farce of a union? Good times, that. Luckily that was only 48% of the population. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, cyderspaceman said: It annoys me when leave voters claim to know what leave voters voted for. True. Ironically it was Mogg who said there should be two referenda; the second once we all knew what the detailed proposal was. He seems to have changed his mind. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbitterandgrumpy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 5 minutes ago, WATTOO said: The majority of politicians nowadays are nothing more than careerist PR people who have no calling as it were, no principles, no ideologies and basically just see their job as a means to skip a few rungs of the ladder in the private sector. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Have you been to see Stanley yet? Not yet. It's one of these things I've promised myself I will do when the doctor tells me I've only got 3 months to live. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, WATTOO said: The majority of politicians nowadays are nothing more than careerist PR people who have no calling as it were, no principles, no ideologies and basically just see their job as a means to skip a few rungs of the ladder in the private sector. People get the political representatives they deserve. People who are critical of politicians need to get involved themselves. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, NotThePars said: The media are complicit in this shit as well though. They've credulously reported on everything Leavers, and May's government, have claimed is possible to do or haven't interrogated the real consequences of what they're saying. Andrew Neil having a go at James Delingpole over the WTO rules is the first time I can recall a real critique of what Hard Brexiteers have been claiming will be fine to do for months. Delingpole is a fanny but the idea that you have to be able to explain your positions in technical detail in order to be entitled to hold them is extremely regressive. If you go down that road you end up in a technocracy dominated by the super rich (like this one). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: People get the political representatives they deserve. People who are critical of politicians need to get involved themselves. I take your point but we cant ALL be politicians. If a plumber does a rubbish job in my kitchen, I can't be expected to become a plumber. (actually, I'm quite a good diy plumber, even if I do say so myself) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Detournement said: Delingpole is a fanny but the idea that you have to be able to explain your positions in technical detail in order to be entitled to hold them is extremely regressive. If you go down that road you end up in a technocracy dominated by the super rich (like this one). It doesn't take a great deal of technical detail to describe the workings of the WTO from what I've read. No, I'm not an 'expert' but I have tried to read about it. I really doubt many brexiters have done the same. They are the ones touting it, not the reamainers. It's up to them to extol its virtues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyderspaceman Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Just saw Farage at the EU parliament on the telly. Smirking, smug c**t. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbitterandgrumpy Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Granny Danger said: People get the political representatives they deserve. People who are critical of politicians need to get involved themselves. But isn't that a Catch 22? I personally am very disillusioned with politics. I find politicians unbearably patronising. I vote every 5 years, express my opinion then watch as things seem to carry on much as before. Ok, Brexit was out of the ordinary, didn't see that coming. But the 'representatives' we put in Westminster to deal with this are dealing with it the only way they know how, ie by shouting across the chamber at each other or forming unholy alliances. There is a system, and that system is long established. It's firmly ensconced at Westminster and known as First Past The Post. We live in what is essentially a conservative country and radical change to the voting system is something the UK is a long, long way from. So, yeah, I guess we do get the representatives we deserve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, cyderspaceman said: I take your point but we cant ALL be politicians. If a plumber does a rubbish job in my kitchen, I can't be expected to become a plumber. (actually, I'm quite a good diy plumber, even if I do say so myself) No but it’s easy to carp from the sidelines though I’m not denying you your right to do so. Now about that dripping tap in my kitchen... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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