Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

Brexiters "facts" are nearly always opinions based on inaccurate "facts".

[Jeff Venom]

You can prove anything with facts

[Jambomo]

27 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

But if fact is based on evidence. Then wouldn't your opinions also be fact, based on what you consider to be evidence? Is evidence absolute, or is it merely down to your personal interpretation of that evidence and whether you personally consider it to be solid enough to consider something a fact or not?

Surely all of your opinions are fact as far as you are concerned? Why would you hold a view about something unless you considered it to be concrete fact?

Opinions aren't fact, they are simply based on the evidence that you have. I may consider it a fact that today is Thursday but if I find that I have consulted an 2018 calendar and the 25th Jan 19 is actually a Friday, then I would have based my opinion on incorrect evidence, even though my evidence points to two factually truthful points.

I don't consider any opinions, my own or anyone else's, to be factual because they might always be based on incorrect or flawed evidence - even when it is the best evidence available at that time.

 

[NotThePars]

I’m perfectly willing to acknowledge that many right wingers are disingenuous and deliberately obtuse rather than ignorant.

[welshbairn]

The right and left can agree on facts while disagreeing on policy due to different priorities, which come down to opinion. The Brexit thing is new, facts on the leave side either don't come into it or are willfully invented. There's no basis to even have a discussion on it.

[ICTJohnboy]

12 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

I’m perfectly willing to acknowledge that many right wingers are disingenuous and deliberately obtuse rather than ignorant.

 

These are words which wouldn't be out of place in a description of Jeremy Corbyn.

[BawWatchin]

12 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

The right and left can agree on facts while disagreeing on policy due to different priorities, which come down to opinion. The Brexit thing is new, facts on the leave side either don't come into it or are willfully invented. There's no basis to even have a discussion on it.

Perhaps brexit is simply their priority?

[Gaz]

2 hours ago, BawWatchin said:

What if people disagree with what you consider to be fact. Are they wrong for doing so. Just because you're convinced in your own mind that you're right?

You don't 'consider' things to be fact. They are, or they aren't.

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Jambomo said:

Surely if it is a fact, then it will be able to be evidenced? A fact isn't something you can "Consider to be" it is either something that can be proven to be true or false. Opinion is the opposite, you can consider that you might have a well-supported opinion but it can't be a true or a false opinion, it can only be that - a position you hold based on the evidence you have (or don't have).

Opinions cost nothing and are worth as much. FACT

[BawWatchin]

8 minutes ago, Gaz said:

You don't 'consider' things to be fact. They are, or they aren't.

How do you know something is a fact when it has never actually been proven to you personally? Do you just accept that it's a fact, because it's generally accepted by people to be fact, even if they're just doing the same thing you are?

[Gaz]

1 minute ago, BawWatchin said:

How do you know something is a fact when it has never actually been proven to you personally? Do you just accept that it's a fact, because it's generally accepted by people to be fact, even if they're just doing the same thing you are?

I accept what's fact based on the very best available evidence at the time. I'm not really sure why this is so difficult to grasp for some people.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Gaz

[BawWatchin]

1 minute ago, Gaz said:

I accept what's fact based on the very best available evidence at the time. I'm not really sure why this is so difficult to grasp for some people.

The very best available evidence at the time doesn't make it right though...... just saying.

[Gaz]

1 minute ago, BawWatchin said:

The very best available evidence at the time doesn't make it right though...... just saying.

In the absence of an alternative, yes it does.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Are we heading for a new dark ages?

[Granny Danger]

May might try to get a couple of weeks delay to Brexit according to the BBC.  This is the woman who wasted over 30 months and recently pushed back the first proper vote by 4 weeks.

 

Edited January 25, 2019 by Granny Danger

[welshbairn]

8 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Are we heading for a new dark ages?

Maybe. Bannon keeps going on about a book called the Fourth Turning, claiming that around every 70 years there will be major political catastrophe. He thinks it means a war with China, I'd say liberal democracy ripping itself apart is more likely. The book is probably shite, haven't read it, but it would be timely for Scottish Enlightenment 2.0 to make a global impact again.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

18 minutes ago, Inanimate Carbon Rod said:

Are we heading for a new dark ages?

Avoiding that is the main reason people voted to leave.

[BawWatchin]

44 minutes ago, Gaz said:

In the absence of an alternative, yes it does.

So the earth was flat, just because there was no alternative evidence at the time to suggest otherwise? So pre-500bc flat earthers were right? Wow.

[Inanimate Carbon Rod]

Maybe. Bannon keeps going on about a book called the Fourth Turning, claiming that around every 70 years there will be major political catastrophe. He thinks it means a war with China, I'd say liberal democracy ripping itself apart is more likely. The book is probably shite, haven't read it, but it would be timely for Scottish Enlightenment 2.0 to make a global impact again.

Think it’s going to happen, a second Scottish Enlightenment sounds good. Would love to be the country that becomes more compassionate as every other becomes a seething right wing mess.

[Gaz]

2 minutes ago, BawWatchin said:

So the earth was flat, just because there was no alternative evidence at the time to suggest otherwise? So pre-500bc flat earthers were right? Wow.

... you do know that it is a myth that most people believed the earth was flat, right? There was already overwhelming evidence that the earth was spherical by the time people started wondering.