beefybake Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 45 minutes ago, welshbairn said: It would help if Labour made the case that the Tories are overwhelmingly responsible for the austerity economics, welfare cuts and wage stagnation in the UK, rather than the EU. Not so easy, given Labour's acquiescence, and sometimes downright complicity, in Conservative austerity measures, welfare cuts. In fact most of the Westminster political establishment have been complicit, 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I'm sorry, but I seem to have missed Jeremy Corbyn advocating a second referendum - when did that happen ?The party has repeatedly stated that it’s keeping all options open if it can’t force a general election. I’ve not really seen anything that’s contradicted that policy yet. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Keir Srarmer’s speech to the Fabian Society today is quite significant. Prominent coverage on the Sky, Guardian and Independent websites. I can’t find it on the BBC website, though they are carrying comments by John Major! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Not so easy, given Labour's acquiescence, and sometimes downright complicity, in Conservative austerity measures, welfare cuts. In fact most of the Westminster political establishment have been complicit, Indeed. In fact the worst aspect of welfare "reform" has been the introduction of heavily bonused "healthcare professionals" carrying out Work Capability Assessments, thanks to Labour. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteRoseKillie Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Keir Srarmer’s speech to the Fabian Society today is quite significant. Prominent coverage on the Sky, Guardian and Independent websites. I can’t find it on the BBC website, though they are carrying comments by John Major! I was watching it on the BBC when they cut him short, so switched over to SKY-only for them to do the same a couple of minutes later. Certainly looks as if a second referendum could be mooted by Labour if things don't go well in the next couple of days. I still think a GE is more likely, as the Maybot is terrified of being remembered as the one who broke the Tory party. Destroying the county, she's less bothered about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I don’t think an election is going to happen but I’d be pleasantly surprised. She’s likely using it to discipline her backbenchers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 31 minutes ago, Granny Danger said: Keir Srarmer’s speech to the Fabian Society today is quite significant. Prominent coverage on the Sky, Guardian and Independent websites. I can’t find it on the BBC website, though they are carrying comments by John Major! Here's the transcript, interview on C4 too. Haven't read or watched them yet, it's Saturday night ffs! https://labour.org.uk/press/keir-starmer-fabians-conference-speech-brexit-beyond/ https://www.channel4.com/news/sir-keir-starmer-may-has-been-inflexible-for-two-years-she-is-the-brexit-deal-block 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Angelo Barksdale Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 I'm starting to get a bit nervous about crashing out with no deal. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, NotThePars said: Labour’s strategy has been to make a set of impossible conditions so that any deal offered by May is rejected. And it's blatantly clear to everyone. That is not a party setting itself up as acting in the nation's best interests and capable of forming a Government. (writing style stolen from Times letter pages) Edited January 19, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, welshbairn said: And it's blatantly clear to everyone. That is not a party setting itself up as acting in the Nation's best interests and capable of forming a Government. May has done literally nothing to warrant any goodwill or cooperation from virtually everyone outside of her immediate circle and "the nation's best interests" is a nebulous term that doesn't mean anything and can be easily appropriated by reactionaries and the fash. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 4 minutes ago, NotThePars said: May has done literally nothing to warrant any goodwill or cooperation from virtually everyone outside of her immediate circle and "the nation's best interests" is a nebulous term that doesn't mean anything and can be easily appropriated by reactionaries and the fash. Doing what's best for the country is traditionally an important thing for parties at least to pretend to do. Blocking any way of avoiding going off a cliff edge isn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 Just now, welshbairn said: Doing what's best for the country is traditionally an important thing for parties at least to pretend to do. Blocking any way of avoiding going off a cliff edge isn't. You're just buying May's propaganda that it's Labour's, or anyone else's, fault for us heading towards a No Deal. If she can't command the support of the house, or meaningfully work cross party, on navigating the country through Brexit then she should do the decent thing and resign/ call a general election/ extend A50/ call a second referendum. That's on her and nobody else. Bear in mind the government repeatedly voted against allowing parliament meaningful says on the deal and tried to exclude the rest of the parliament from having any input whatsoever. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, NotThePars said: You're just buying May's propaganda that it's Labour's, or anyone else's, fault for us heading towards a No Deal. If she can't command the support of the house, or meaningfully work cross party, on navigating the country through Brexit then she should do the decent thing and resign/ call a general election/ extend A50/ call a second referendum. That's on her and nobody else. Bear in mind the government repeatedly voted against allowing parliament meaningful says on the deal and tried to exclude the rest of the parliament from having any input whatsoever. May's deal was about as close to what you could get by following Corbyn's red lines. he hasn't dropped any. Saying whatever deal she came back with in those circumstances, you would block, is not grown up politics. Of course May should have talked to other non Tory MPs much earlier, but there would have been no point in talking to Corbyn, they were already of one mind on the major issues, Brexit means Brexit. And he helped her push through A50 far too early when nobody had the vaguest plan. Edited January 19, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BawWatchin Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 34 minutes ago, Henderson to deliver ..... said: I'm starting to get a bit nervous about crashing out with no deal. Don't worry m8, they'll be plenty of arseholes to go around after Brexit is done. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) 10 minutes ago, welshbairn said: May's deal was about as close to what you could get by following Corbyn's red lines. he hasn't dropped any. Saying whatever deal she came back with in those circumstances, you would block, is not grown up politics. Of course May should have talked to other non Tory MPs much earlier, but there would have been no point in talking to Corbyn, they were already of one mind on the major issues, Brexit means Brexit. May from pretty much day one signalled she was going to negotiate Brexit without any input or discussions with parliament and pretty much tried to block any attempt by parliament to get involved in the process. She held a snap election to ensure she wouldn't have to deal with the opposition parties and fucked it. What you're terming "grown up politics" is just asking the left to commit suicide to prop up a Tory government when there's no benefit to Labour to do a Lib Dems particularly when her Chancellor's already basically signalled she's going to shite it on a No Deal Brexit. FWIW what chance was there of the SNP realistically voting for anything May brought back? I genuinely don't think they would've voted for it either if the Labour Party had whipped to vote against it. Edited January 19, 2019 by NotThePars 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lichtgilphead Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, NotThePars said: FWIW what chance was there of the SNP realistically voting for anything May brought back? Very little chance I would say, as the SNP's constituents voted 62/38 for remain. Even though a minority of SNP supporters voted for leave, I would suggest that they have been completely principled & transparent in their views on Brexit. Can you say the same about the 2 main UK unionist parties? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 (edited) And the SNP had none of May's/Corbyn's red lines. Edited January 20, 2019 by welshbairn 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted January 20, 2019 Author Share Posted January 20, 2019 Can't believe their are still some Corbyn fandans on this thread. The lads a complete imbecile 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 3 hours ago, John Lambies Doos said: Can't believe their are still some Corbyn fandans on this thread. The lads a complete imbecile How naive! They are not ‘Corbyn fandans’ they are trolls. They don’t believe what they post, they are simply posting contrarian opinions* to get a reaction. I’m astounded that you don’t see this; or maybe you do and decided to facilitate them anyway. * If you’re in any doubt just look at the shite that they post in other threads on the politics forum. Every position is contrary to the norm. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Apparently it is “extremely concerning” for democratically elected MPs to decide on the future of Brexit! I am really struggling to understand what there is to be concerned about. If MPs are not going to decided who is? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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