Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

19 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

He’s right IMO.

A lot of Remainers (not claiming all just the prominent ones) that argue “but Brexit will make the poor even poorer” couldn’t give less of a shit over how Brexit impacts on impoverished communities across the land.

The people that are claiming the final paragraph is flirting with or indulging anti-semitism have the most powerful brains on social media.

This is exemplified by the utter lack of willingness or a plan to address the root causes of why people voted for Brexit. 

[John Lambies Doos]

What's this fucking Norway style shite. Vast majority of leavers voted that way due to the slogan 'control our borders'. Norway deal allows freedom of movement equal to now. Would be a fudge of fudge if this is plan b. Just bin brexit ffs

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I’m not sure I agree with that but even folk that would should see why voting repeatedly against any inquiry into said war highlights that you’re unwilling to be held accountable for your ghastly decisions.

It doesn't make what he said on Brexit any less valid.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

What does it matter if the deal is rejected?  There's going to be no other deal on the table.  
I don't understand if you agree Brexit must be carried out how you can reject the deal actually.  It wouldn't matter to remainers what the deal was.  They don't want a deal, they want to remain.  The SNP's position is flawed.  They want to be in the single market.  The EU have dismissed this.  Labour don't have a clue what they want.  There is no other deal. 

Single Market membership was perfectly possible but the UK government chose not go that route.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

I still don't understand why everyone thinks this "freedom of movement" is so bad ?
Do Labour seriously believe that freedom of movement is keeping the wages low in this country and eroding workers rights ?
Surely as a Government they would be in a position to ensure that this does not happen ?
Or is it that they're trying to pander to the half wits that believe their "jobs have been stolen", and that they "can't get a house because of them" and that crime is increasing "because of them", but at the same time how many of these cretinous types will actually vote  in a GE ?
Using Burnley as a prime example, in 2017 Labour took 47% of the vote on a 62% turnout, the Conservatives came 2nd with 31% of the vote, so realistically is your hardcore Labour voter going to jump to Conservative if Labour changed their stance on the Freedom of movement question ?
The whole Brexit situation is just full of contradictions and that's what makes it all such a shambles.

Because stupid gammons think that East Europeans are taking jobs from Brits - that will be all the cleaning, retail and farming jobs that the indigenous Brits didn't want to do beforehand.

[DeeTillEhDeh]

       

There is also exploitation of indigenous workers as well but it isn't representative of the majority of workers - indigenous or East European.

A friend who is a builder employs a significant number of East Europeans - not because they are cheaper but because they don't turn up to work hungover and don't take sickies at the drop of the hat.

[Cerberus]

Corbyn has jumped into bed with the same elite few he is criticising by backing a hard Brexit.

His ravings on the subject can be ignored.

[tongue_tied_danny]

7 minutes ago, DeeTillEhDeh said:

There is also exploitation of indigenous workers as well but it isn't representative of the majority of workers - indigenous or East European.

A friend who is a builder employs a significant number of East Europeans - not because they are cheaper but because they don't turn up to work hungover and don't take sickies at the drop of the hat.

This is a personal observation and I don't have any facts or figures to back this up, but there seems to be fewer eastern Europeans going around than there was a few years ago. I certainly haven't noticed many working in supermarkets or cafes recently whereas 5 or 10 years ago there was loads.

Could it be that they're just drifting away by themselves?

 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

2 hours ago, Detournement said:

Ford are reducing jobs in Bordeaux as well.

Demand in China is slowing and the effects of QE are wearing off. Economic stagnation awaits and it's nothing to do with Brexit.

It must be pure coincidence then that both companies have cited Brexit uncertainty as part of the reason for job losses. 

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

8 minutes ago, tongue_tied_danny said:

This is a personal observation and I don't have any facts or figures to back this up, but there seems to be fewer eastern Europeans going around than there was a few years ago. I certainly haven't noticed many working in supermarkets or cafes recently whereas 5 or 10 years ago there was loads.

Could it be that they're just drifting away by themselves?

 

'Drifting away'.

You mean that many eastern Europeans came to the UK for a few years to build up some wages, before heading back home to use their experience in their own countries ?  As they're entitled to do. 

Anybody else remember 'Auf Wiedersehen Pet', and the exodus of UK tradesmen to West Germany at the beginning of the 80's ? 

[Kejan]

9 minutes ago, tongue_tied_danny said:

This is a personal observation and I don't have any facts or figures to back this up, but there seems to be fewer eastern Europeans going around than there was a few years ago. I certainly haven't noticed many working in supermarkets or cafes recently whereas 5 or 10 years ago there was loads.

Could it be that they're just drifting away by themselves?

 

Could well be.

I live outwith Scotland, but come back 4/5 times a year and certainly noticed this as well. You'd hope its a natural desire to return home or go somewhere else, rather than being made to feel unwelcome by a few morons who voted for Brexit.

[NotThePars]

It doesn't make what he said on Brexit any less valid.

 

I don’t think Lammy is the most pertinent example but there’s a real problem with some of the people who are making valid comments on Brexit and are being rehabilitated of their past shite as a result. I’m a broken record at this point but who gives a shit what Heseltine, Soubz, Clarke, Blair*, Mandelson or Major are saying when they’re all tory ghouls who fucked over millions of the people that voted to Leave (and millions of Remainers).

 

*tbf Blair could find a cure for cancer and enact fully automated luxury communism and he would still be rightly reviled.

[welshbairn]

1 hour ago, tongue_tied_danny said:

This is a personal observation and I don't have any facts or figures to back this up, but there seems to be fewer eastern Europeans going around than there was a few years ago. I certainly haven't noticed many working in supermarkets or cafes recently whereas 5 or 10 years ago there was loads.

Could it be that they're just drifting away by themselves?

 

Poland's booming, they'd probably rather work near their families for a bit less and a lower cost of living than see the Daily Express headlines every day saying only traitors want them to stay.

[NotThePars]

Poland's booming, they'd probably rather work near their families for a bit less and a lower cost of living than see the Daily Express headlines every day saying only traitors want them to stay.

I can only speak for the one Polish guy I know and he’s living in Croatia at the moment because Poland is becoming a Catholic theocracy and he would rather avoid staying on “the rainy fascist island”.

[I'm Brian]

5 hours ago, tongue_tied_danny said:

This is a personal observation and I don't have any facts or figures to back this up, but there seems to be fewer eastern Europeans going around than there was a few years ago. I certainly haven't noticed many working in supermarkets or cafes recently whereas 5 or 10 years ago there was loads.

Could it be that they're just drifting away by themselves?

 

This is not my experience. There seems to be more Eastern Europeans rocking up every day at my work. 

This is a good thing though. I'd rather have a workforce rammed full of people who are willing to turn up and put a shift in, rather than the fucked up jakey neds who spit the dummy because they 'urny alood a fag break' every ten minutes. 

[Detournement]

Can you not see the problem here? As long as there is a constant supply of cheap efficient labour there is no need to improve schools, increase vocational training or invest in welfare and communities so that large numbers of people don't become effectively desocialised.

We can all understand what happened to mining towns after their industry closed down but the UK is on the verge of that happening on a much larger scale with retail closing down and available jobs (Amazon warehouse etc, DPD etc) getting worse.

[dee_62]

But surely turning that tap off before you have any of those improvement areas you mention in place, is as bad a move as you can make and will help no one?
Again, this is not the EU’s fault. This has been a WM shortfall for years.

[doulikefish]

35 minutes ago, dee_62 said:

But surely turning that tap off before you have any of those improvement areas you mention in place, is as bad a move as you can make and will help no one?
Again, this is not the EU’s fault. This has been a WM shortfall for years.

All them doctors and nurses coming over to work in the nhs is a bad thing because Comrade jezza says that freedom of movement is bad

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Eastern Europe is doing better economically than previously, so it is only natural a fair number head back.

More to the point the UK economy has been fucked over by the Brexit vote, so it’s only natural that less people want to come here

[Detournement]

53 minutes ago, dee_62 said:

But surely turning that tap off before you have any of those improvement areas you mention in place, is as bad a move as you can make and will help no one?
Again, this is not the EU’s fault. This has been a WM shortfall for years.

No because if you improved wages and terms conditions in the UK without ending Freedom of Movement then a large majority of the benefits will be absorbed by workers from lower wage economies rather than contributing to improving social issues here.

Right wing national governments and the right wing EU have been working together to lower wage costs across Europe. There is no solution in only taking on only Westminster or Brussels, it has to be both.