Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[John Lambies Doos]

You are ignoring a hard core Remain vote that is probably stronger than it was before.
In 1916, you had idiots like Dave Cameron and George Osborne leading the Remain side so the choice sounded like:
"Yeah, it's crap - we need to get out" versus "Yeah it's crap but I guess that maybe we should sort of stay in."
There was also a lot of personality politics - blue-on-blue, Eton mess crap.
Hopefully, in a second referendum, the Remain argument would be argued better and anyone wanting to argue the case in a lukewarm manner will simply be told to f*** off.

In fairness they also had the Irish Easter risings and a world war to worry about

[welshbairn]

The difficult thing in selling a soft Brexit is that every variation is worse than we already have. Beginning to think it's a hard brexit or remain. Maybe a GE and A50 extension could sort something out if Labour come up with a rational plan in their manifesto. The Tory one will be interesting, whoever writes it will lose the support of half the party.

[NotThePars]

1 hour ago, Detournement said:

Who are the great Remain leaders now? Anna Soubry, Chukka and Tony Blair?

A lot of the reason that Remain has been able to build up momentum is that the debate has moved away from the merits/faults  of the EU and has focused on Project Fear plus opposition to JRM and his cronies. Once they actually have to start defending economic development in the EU, freedom of movement, freedom of capital, the threat of TTIP, Laval, Viking, Posted Workers, the EU Army, migrant quotas and the democractic deficit they are back on shaky ground.

 

Also the argument they've made for two years is that the Leave voters were either wrong, duped or both. Not exactly a winning strategy from people that are seen as the establishment. Another referendum needs to have the Remainers acknowledge the vote and promise some sort of meaningful change. Hopefully that change is economic in nature.

[Jacksgranda]

1 hour ago, Fullerene said:

You are ignoring a hard core Remain vote that is probably stronger than it was before.

In 1916, you had idiots like Dave Cameron and George Osborne leading the Remain side so the choice sounded like:

"Yeah, it's crap - we need to get out" versus "Yeah it's crap but I guess that maybe we should sort of stay in."
There was also a lot of personality politics - blue-on-blue, Eton mess crap.

Hopefully, in a second referendum, the Remain argument would be argued better and anyone wanting to argue the case in a lukewarm manner will simply be told to f*** off.

Yes we were trying to get out of Europe then as well. Took us 2 years that time, too.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, Jacksgranda said:

Yes we were trying to get out of Europe then as well. Took us 2 years that time, too.

Only when we were saved by the Yanks. At least they hadn't invented chlorinated chicken back then.

[Detournement]

3 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Only when we were saved by the Yanks. At least they hadn't invented chlorinated chicken back then.

The German Revolution ended the war.

 

[John Lambies Doos]

Yes we were trying to get out of Europe then as well. Took us 2 years that time, too.

Got in before you above

[welshbairn]

17 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

Also the argument they've made for two years is that the Leave voters were either wrong, duped or both. Not exactly a winning strategy from people that are seen as the establishment. Another referendum needs to have the Remainers acknowledge the vote and promise some sort of meaningful change. Hopefully that change is economic in nature.

The entire political class apart from Ken Clarke and the Liberals have been slagging off the EU project for decades, backed up by a hysterical press. The economic arguments don't affect us much as we're not in the Eurozone. Restrictions on State support for certain industries could be disputed but Blair, Cameron and May were never likely to push the argument. If they had it's likely they would have found European partners. You can't have a single market when some firms are unfairly subsidised in competitive markets though, without defined exceptions.

Edited December 14, 2018 by welshbairn

[Bedford White]

20 hours ago, welshbairn said:

I agree. With Corbyn having no credible alternative and being against a ref2, and nothing really being decided until after Brexit, and no chance of the DUP or the Tories voting no confidence in the Government, it's either May's deal that postpones everything or sleepwalking into a hard brexit. An extension of A50 is a possibility but the Euro Parliament election in May makes it tricky.

I think we are heading for a VONC next week and a subsequent February GE. I think it is plausible that DUP and some ERG abstentions bring the government down. Deadlock May can't get her deal through parliament and Labour will want to harness the anger in parliament of the vote been pulled and unrest by Mogg et al.

Do it now Jezza as she has been given the bums rush by the EU as predicted and let's get rid of this shower of shite and start dealing with the real problems in the UK.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/labour-dup-corbyn-no-confidence-motion_uk_5c114367e4b0ac53717b59cf/&ved=2ahUKEwiT-8Kq-J_fAhXWRBUIHRadBIUQiJQBMAB6BAgKEAQ&usg=AOvVaw2OLWiDy3TI7TwHPdQsQ7O1&ampcf=1

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ICTJohnboy]

3 hours ago, cyderspaceman said:

They don't give a flying f**k about Scotland.

 

They'll soon give a flying f**k about Scotland, when the SNP trigger Indy2 - which I can guarantee will happen in the event of the UK leaving the EU with No Deal.

Don't you remember what happened last time?

Even the Queen was getting worried - I just hope she lives long enough to see an independent Scotland.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by ICTJohnboy

[Detournement]

6 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

 You can't have a single market when some firms are unfairly subsidised in competitive markets though, without defined exceptions.

I've been reading a wee bit about QE the past couple of days and the ECB has been buying corporate bonds as part of it's program.

So apparently you can get around state aid if you are handing money directly to the richest in society.....

[Fullerene]

36 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Yes we were trying to get out of Europe then as well. Took us 2 years that time, too.

Oops.  My mistake.  Well spotted.

[beefybake]

14 minutes ago, Bedford White said:

I think we are heading for a VONC next week and a subsequent February GE. I think it is plausible that DUP and some ERG abstentions bring the government down.

I think, apart from anything else, that the DUP reckon that they've had their £1 Billion bribe from the government, they're unlikely to see more.

( unless it's delivered to each of them, in the middle of the night, in brown envelopes ), 

so why bother supporting the government for any longer..?

 

[Granny Danger]

The BBC news website still giving May an easy time of it.  They wouldn’t be doing that if it was Corbyn.

 

[Detournement]

If Corbyn becomes PM the 6 o'clock news will have a black band round the screen.

[Fullerene]

57 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

2 hours ago, Fullerene said:

You are ignoring a hard core Remain vote that is probably stronger than it was before.
In 1916, you had idiots like Dave Cameron and George Osborne leading the Remain side so the choice sounded like:
"Yeah, it's crap - we need to get out" versus "Yeah it's crap but I guess that maybe we should sort of stay in."
There was also a lot of personality politics - blue-on-blue, Eton mess crap.
Hopefully, in a second referendum, the Remain argument would be argued better and anyone wanting to argue the case in a lukewarm manner will simply be told to f*** off.

In fairness they also had the Irish Easter risings and a world war to worry about

Yes.  I got that wrong and you spotted it first. 

[Jacksgranda]

2 hours ago, Fullerene said:

You are ignoring a hard core Remain vote that is probably stronger than it was before.

In 1916, you had idiots like Dave Cameron and George Osborne leading the Remain side so the choice sounded like:

"Yeah, it's crap - we need to get out" versus "Yeah it's crap but I guess that maybe we should sort of stay in."
There was also a lot of personality politics - blue-on-blue, Eton mess crap.

Hopefully, in a second referendum, the Remain argument would be argued better and anyone wanting to argue the case in a lukewarm manner will simply be told to f*** off.

 

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

2 hours ago, Fullerene said:

You are ignoring a hard core Remain vote that is probably stronger than it was before.
In 1916, you had idiots like Dave Cameron and George Osborne leading the Remain side so the choice sounded like:
"Yeah, it's crap - we need to get out" versus "Yeah it's crap but I guess that maybe we should sort of stay in."
There was also a lot of personality politics - blue-on-blue, Eton mess crap.
Hopefully, in a second referendum, the Remain argument would be argued better and anyone wanting to argue the case in a lukewarm manner will simply be told to f*** off.

In fairness they also had the Irish Easter risings and a world war to worry about

 

52 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Yes we were trying to get out of Europe then as well. Took us 2 years that time, too.

 

43 minutes ago, John Lambies Doos said:

52 minutes ago, Jacksgranda said:

Yes we were trying to get out of Europe then as well. Took us 2 years that time, too.

Got in before you above

 

14 minutes ago, Fullerene said:

Oops.  My mistake.  Well spotted.

You're going to have to apologise to John Lambies Doos too, otherwise he'll be very annoyed. *

* I see you've already done that. Late to the party again!

Edited December 14, 2018 by Jacksgranda
Made redundant by earlier post

[Jacksgranda]

6 minutes ago, beefybake said:

I think, apart from anything else, that the DUP reckon that they've had their £1 Billion bribe from the government, they're unlikely to see more.

( unless it's delivered to each of them, in the middle of the night, in brown envelopes ), 

so why bother supporting the government for any longer..?

 

It wasn't the DUP who got the money.

[ICTJohnboy]

11 minutes ago, Granny Danger said:

The BBC news website still giving May an easy time of it.  They wouldn’t be doing that if it was Corbyn.

 

 

They might go a bit more easily on him if he could only come out and offer some kind of an opinion on the Brexit mess. It's like it's the last thing he wants to talk about.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2018 by ICTJohnboy

[Granny Danger]

1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

They might go a bit more easily on him if he could only come out and offer some kind of an opinion on the Brexit mess. It's like it's the last thing he wants to talk about.

I’m really talking about the fact that they are not more critical of May.  They should be more critical of May.  Instead they are basically acting as her cheerleaders.