Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Pull My Strings]

4 minutes ago, weegienative said:

You ok petal?

It's like herding cats trying to debate with some people, that's all.

[Guest Bob Mahelp]

4 minutes ago, Detournement said:

I think we are headed for a GE soon.

May can't call a second referendum. No one who can replace her from the Tories will call one. That only leaves go to the country in a GE.

 

Not necessarily.

The Tories are clinging to power like the cowards they are, and there's no obligation on them to hold a GE if the opposition can't muster the required number of votes.

I believe they'll hang on by their fingernails by bribing the DUP and threatening their dissident MP's. They'll hope to muddle through and that people have forgotten about the utter clusterf*ck in 4 years time.

 

 

 

[ICTJohnboy]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

Do you come back from America every election and get back on the electoral register?

 

He's an obvious troll -  I can't understand why so many respond to his shite posts.

[cyderspaceman]

1 minute ago, Pull My Strings said:

It's like herding cats trying to debate with some people, that's all.

There's a saying,

Never try to argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and win through experience.

[Mackie The Staggie]

So...the Tory party held a vote in 2016 for a new leader, now they say they got it wrong and want to redo the vote....

....but a 2nd referendum will destroy the fabric of democracy mind.

[weegienative]

2 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

It's like herding cats trying to debate with some people, that's all.

No but it's quite obvious most of you live in an echo chamber where your beliefs are never challenged. You all either go into shock or abuse mode when confronted.

One good thing about being right wing/conservative studying politics in the west of Scotland is you get extremely good at debate. Of course this is much more effective in person.

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, ICTJohnboy said:

 

He's an obvious troll -  I can't understand why so many respond to his shite posts.

Think I preferred his MAGA phase. YankMike was it? Followed by Progressive something.

[NotThePars]

Referenda are an alien concept to British democracy, unlike where you are. There's no rules or conventions about them, the last one wasn't even legally binding, just an advisory snap poll. There is zero democratic deficit in consulting the electorate again about the manner of our leaving, or if they still want to do so. 

That last sentence can be debated all day. It’s about whether or not you can convince enough of the electorate that it’s possible to back to a vote without seemingly invalidating the first one. Do you think the current People’s Vote lot can, or are capable of, doing that?

[Fullerene]

10 minutes ago, weegienative said:

Ah ok, the ones who agree with you are good guys the ones who don't are thick?

Seems an adult viewpoint. Really makes you wonder why this has been such a divisive issue.

No.  Some Leave voters are thick racists.  I don't expect any of them to change their minds.

We can now focus on those who are not thick racists and voted Leave for other reasons.  These are the ones to target.  These are the ones to persuade.

[TheScarf]

The glorious return of Stewart Dickson/Law Stud.

God how's long that been? 2010/2011?

[weegienative]

3 minutes ago, cyderspaceman said:

There's a saying,

Never try to argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and win through experience.

"There is nothing more dangerous than those convinced by their own good intentions"

[NotThePars]

I was reading about 1860Munich, (the oldest football club in the world, allegedly) and came across this concerning the German Revolutions.
"The middle-class elements were committed to liberal principles, while the working class sought radical improvements to their working and living conditions. As the middle class and working class components of the Revolution split, the conservative aristocracy defeated it."
What goes around...

What revolution out of interest?

[Ross.]

10 minutes ago, weegienative said:

Quite simple really.

I voted for the people I/we vote for every 4 or 5 years to be the ones making decisions for the country.

You specified non EU immigration. 3 questions off the back of that.

1) pre Brexit vote are we able to stop migrants entering the EU (let's say Spain or Italy for example), staying there for 5 years before then being eligible as EU citizens to travel here?

2) post Brexit vote and post revoke of article 50 (let's assume for the purpose of debate this happens). True or false, The UK have no any say in migrants landing in Spain and being "allocated" to the UK?

3) post Brexit with Britain a non member of the EU. Britain can decide it's own immigration policy independent of the EU? (Whatever form that takes is irrelevant).

On the bolded part. If the governing party decide to ignore the Brexit vote, then you are admitting now that you are happy for that to happen provided they feel it is the best decision for the country.

On  questions 1 and 3 - I left the UK and moved to Switzerland, which has to allow freedom of movement for access to the single market. To the best of my knowledge, the system the Swiss use could be used by the UK. I had to support myself and was not eligible for any help from the national, state or local governments. I had to renew my permit every 6 months to confirm I was still in the country and still in a position to support myself. If I couldn't support myself, tough luck, you just have to get on with things or go somewhere else. That is the case for anyone from the EU moving to Switzerland.

Your second question requires further information. What is the status of the migrants who land in Spain? Why did they land in Spain? where did they come from? Are they political exiles? Economic migrants? EU born?

[harry94]

If there's an election, I don't think May would call it (unless it's maybe to avoid the embarrassment of being forced into it). The best they can really do is a very slight majority government - not near enough to overrule the ERG.

Basically, she needed that 100 seat majority when she called the election in 2017. This was the only sort of withdrawal agreement that anyone was ever going to get tbh and people were always going to hate it.

Edited December 12, 2018 by harry94

[weegienative]

4 minutes ago, NotThePars said:

 

That last sentence can be debated all day. It’s about whether or not you can convince enough of the electorate that it’s possible to back to a vote without seemingly invalidating the first one. Do you think the current People’s Vote lot can, or are capable of, doing that?

 

The emergence of Tony Blair seemingly trying to weasel his way back into British politics, giving his support to this certainly won't help. Alistair Campbell aka Malcolm Tucker backing it also isn't helping.

[weegienative]

14 minutes ago, cyderspaceman said:

One twat said he voted leave to keep out the "Pakis". 

 

 

One guy? I'm convinced.

[Scary Bear]

5 minutes ago, Bob Mahelp said:

Not necessarily.

The Tories are clinging to power like the cowards they are, and there's no obligation on them to hold a GE if the opposition can't muster the required number of votes.

I believe they'll hang on by their fingernails by bribing the DUP and threatening their dissident MP's. They'll hope to muddle through and that people have forgotten about the utter clusterf*ck in 4 years time.

 

 

 

Labour still have Jez as leader. He is the invisible man and on the rare occasions he does appear the media slaughter him. What would be the point of another GE when the FPTP system will likely see a similar outcome.  Another 5 years of the Tories with a more vicious Tory at the helm doesn’t appeal. U.K. politics is terrible and it’s mainly the fault of the people of the U.K. 

[welshbairn]

1 minute ago, NotThePars said:

 

That last sentence can be debated all day. It’s about whether or not you can convince enough of the electorate that it’s possible to back to a vote without seemingly invalidating the first one. Do you think the current People’s Vote lot can, or are capable of, doing that?

 

I'm one of the few people that hope May's deal passes. It decides nothing about our future relationship with the EU, we'll have left and honoured the referendum. Then we can hold another one if a majority thinks we'd be better off back in.

 

 

[Fullerene]

2 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

I'm one of the few people that hope May's deal passes. It decides nothing about our future relationship with the EU, we'll have left and honoured the referendum. Then we can hold another one if a majority thinks we'd be better off back in.

 

 

.. and what brilliant negotiators will we have to negotiate our return?

[weegienative]

16 minutes ago, Pull My Strings said:

So ultimately it all boils down to stopping foreigners coming to the UK. Fair enough, I suppose. At least that's an honest position.

Not all, but a portion, yes. And no, not foreigners, just unrestricted and unchecked large scale immigration of unskilled men from the third world who don't respect our values or traditions. What a crazy thing to be concerned about right?