Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier]

Just now, WhiteRoseKillie said:

OK, then. While Brexit is indeed important and will have long ranging consequences, the Tories' dismantling of the welfare state is not only drawing extreme criticism from impartial observers, IT'S COSTING LIVES NOW!

This shower have used the so-called big issue to divert attention from an ideological attack on the most vulnerable in this country. Not one of them deserves anything other than a slow, painful death. I'm happy for people's opinions to differ from mine, but to laugh and bray when concerns are raised and evidence of suffering presented is absolutely fucking vile.

While I think Corbyn is a buffoon, I totally agree with the tack he took today. There is no mileage whatsoever in yesterday's Brexit shambles. The Tories are ripping into each other over it. Let them do Labour's work. There will be plenty of opportunities of the coming days of the Brexit debate to point score.

[BawWatchin]

Just now, Highlandmagyar 2nd Tier said:

While I think Corbyn is a buffoon, I totally agree with the tack he took today. There is no mileage whatsoever in yesterday's Brexit shambles. The Tories are ripping into each other over it. Let them do Labour's work. There will be plenty of opportunities of the coming days of the Brexit debate to point score.

[Ira Gaines]

3 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

I reckon it may get mentioned in passing over the next couple of days, yes.
My point is that this absolute shambles of a government is attacking its own people on many fronts, and they need challenging across the board, not just on the mess they've made of Brexit. Corbyn does this, and as demonstrated today does so with a real passion that I am proud to see from a real Labour leader.

You've got a lot more faith than me then. He's consistently worked for Brexit in votes and during the referendum campaign itself, either by staying silent to allow leave voters the loudest voice, or by whipping Labour into voting for the most extreme Brexit possible.

A lifelong Brexit supporter, and someone who will happily sell millions down the river due to his own eurosceptic beliefs. So he's going to wind up being as guilty as anyone of attacking the British people, and by helping this shambles along, he's already done this.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Principal Flutie

[Londonwell]

5 minutes ago, Principal Flutie said:

You've got a lot more faith than me then. He's consistently worked for Brexit in votes and during the referendum campaign itself, either by staying silent to allow leave voters the loudest voice, or by whipping Labour into voting for the most extreme Brexit possible.

A lifelong Brexit supporter, and someone who will happily sell millions down the river due to his own eurosceptic beliefs. So he's going to wind up being as guilty as anyone of attacking the British people, and by helping this shambles along, he's already done this.

All the while not having the courage to come out and be truthful with people about his true beliefs. A real man of principle, bollocks.

[Granny Danger]

The line now being punted by much of the MSM is that Grieve's amendment will force a lot of Tory rebels to reluctantly back May's proposal.  Don't see it happening in sufficient numbers myself.

Anyone know if any opposition MPs voted against or abstained in the Grieve and/or contempt motions yesterday?

 

[Londonwell]

30 minutes ago, WhiteRoseKillie said:

OK, then. While Brexit is indeed important and will have long ranging consequences, the Tories' dismantling of the welfare state is not only drawing extreme criticism from impartial observers, IT'S COSTING LIVES NOW!

This shower have used the so-called big issue to divert attention from an ideological attack on the most vulnerable in this country. Not one of them deserves anything other than a slow, painful death. I'm happy for people's opinions to differ from mine, but to laugh and bray when concerns are raised and evidence of suffering presented is absolutely fucking vile.

You want an end to Universal Credit? Then bring down the Gov or vote for an independent Scotland. Corbyn isn't interested in either. 

[GiGi]

19 hours ago, welshbairn said:

Cherry's so much more effective than Blackford.

Agree.

1 hour ago, Londonwell said:

I've just tuned into PMQ's. Would I be correct in saying Corbyn isn't questioning May on Brexit/legal advice? wtf

You would indeed. The most spineless, insipid opposition leader I've ever seen. 

[Loondave1]

You want an end to Universal Credit? Then bring down the Gov or vote for an independent Scotland. Corbyn isn't interested in either. 

Think Corbyn is quite interested in bringing down the Govt to be fair although the Nats love a Tory baddie at No10 so I can see how some might be disappointed if that occured despite kidding on otherwise.

[Ira Gaines]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Kyle]

1 minute ago, Loondave1 said:

5 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

You want an end to Universal Credit? Then bring down the Gov or vote for an independent Scotland. Corbyn isn't interested in either. 

Think Corbyn is quite interested in bringing down the Govt to be fair although the Nats love a Tory baddie at No10 so I can see how some might be disappointed if that occured despite kidding on otherwise.

Corbyn and his merry band are hardly much of an improvement to be fair. Neither party is worth voting for right now.

[Londonwell]

2 minutes ago, Loondave1 said:

6 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

You want an end to Universal Credit? Then bring down the Gov or vote for an independent Scotland. Corbyn isn't interested in either. 

Think Corbyn is quite interested in bringing down the Govt to be fair although the Nats love a Tory baddie at No10 so I can see how some might be disappointed if that occured despite kidding on otherwise.

Must try harder.

[Benjamin_Nevis]

Think Corbyn is quite interested in bringing down the Govt to be fair although the Nats love a Tory baddie at No10 so I can see how some might be disappointed if that occured despite kidding on otherwise.

Sakes.

You've been trolling here long enough to know that particular bait is shite and doesn't work.

[Loondave1]

Corbyn and his merry band are hardly much of an improvement to be fair. Neither party is worth voting for right now.

Bollocks. Potentially the most left wing Govt at WM since the 70s. Way left of anything Nationalists are offering. If you prefer Indy fair enough but pretending the Tories wouldn't be better replaced by a Labour Govt is pish really. Unless you are a Tartan Tory old school voter its a crock.

[Loondave1]

Sakes.

You've been trolling here long enough to know that particular bait is shite and doesn't work.

Couldn't care less. It's got a fairly large grain of truth in it. Pretending no Nats can see the usefulness of a Tory at No10 is cobblers. I remember a fair few too busy mocking Labours Scottish meltdown to care about Cameron popping back into No10. You guys should take the halo off occasionally.

[Kyle]

Why does everything have to be extremes? I'm not interested in a far right Tory Brexit and the potential for the likes of Boris Johnson to be prime minister after the fact. I'm also not interested in a far left labour government who's leader has zero credibility, supports Brexit (a 'jobs first Brexit' apparently - whatever the f**k that means) and who is only in power because of far left movements within his own party. 

Both parties are beating populist drums and I'd rather neither were anywhere near power.

 

[Big Fifer]

I must admit there's something I'm enjoying a wee bit about this. I have always been a soft Indy supporter, and my pals are mainly no, with the economic arguments being thrown about like there's no tomorrow. We have a wee WhatsApp chat where we talk politics like a bunch of saddos, and when I've brought up the Northern Ireland customs union stuff today it's really fascinating to watch it being swept under the carpet with a reluctance to discuss it. 

When it comes to Scotland being independent, economic facts are all that they want to talk. You'd think that they'd want to see Scotland prosper as part of the UK, too. When it becomes clear that being part of the UK in this Brexit shit show with NI getting preferential treatment and Scotland being actively disadvantaged as part of the "precious union", all of a sudden economic arguments are irrelevant and not worth discussing.

When the economic argument starts to split away at the seams, it doesn't take long to see the same "vile", "divisive" nationalism on the other side. The only difference is their flag has a wee bit of red in it.

[Londonwell]

The Tories are more popular than Labour in Scotland at the moment fyi.

 

ETA: meant to quote trolldave's post.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Londonwell

[Ira Gaines]

There are, of course, idiotic ScotNats who like the idea of Tories in No10 as it helps indy, but that's no different from the BritNats so blinded by their unionism.

I'd rather have neither party at the moment, given both of them want to take us right off the edge of a cliff, and that shouldn't just be an opinion put on ScotNats.

[WhiteRoseKillie]

36 minutes ago, Principal Flutie said:

You've got a lot more faith than me then. He's consistently worked for Brexit in votes and during the referendum campaign itself, either by staying silent to allow leave voters the loudest voice, or by whipping Labour into voting for the most extreme Brexit possible.

A lifelong Brexit supporter, and someone who will happily sell millions down the river due to his own eurosceptic beliefs. So he's going to wind up being as guilty as anyone of attacking the British people, and by helping this shambles along, he's already done this.

Hard to be a lifelong supporter of something which only became a live issue in recent years, imho. He has never "worked for Brexit" - the Party have respected the result of the referendum. Quite a different stance.

Eurosceptic, Aye, I'll give you that. His position in the campaign, like mine, was that the least worst option was that of remain and reform. I can tell you, from actually listening to him rather than the soundbites available through the media, that his campaigning (which was just a wee bit more intense than he's given credit for) was presented thus.

Since the vote, he's had to balance all sorts of opinions and aims within the Party, let alone the wider electorate. Imho, the leadership team have played a blinder by simply allowing the Tories to pull themselves to pieces, as May made it quite clear this clusterfuck was to be a Government project - rejecting all offers of cross-party co-operation from Labour, SNP, Plaid, Lib Dems and others. She wanted ownership - let the bitch keep it.

Labour have simply followed Sun Tzu's advice - "never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake".

[WhiteRoseKillie]

39 minutes ago, Londonwell said:

All the while not having the courage to come out and be truthful with people about his true beliefs. A real man of principle, bollocks.

As my previous answer - listen to the man, rather than the skewed image presented to you. As with Trident, his personal beliefs are second to the Party policy.