NotThePars Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Isn’t the point of the six tests is that they’re basing them on the Leave campaign’s promise that we can have a Brexit of zero consequence. The point of the six tests appears to be that they’re impossible to achieve. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 2 minutes ago, NotThePars said: Isn’t the point of the six tests is that they’re basing them on the Leave campaign’s promise that we can have a Brexit of zero consequence. The point of the six tests appears to be that they’re impossible to achieve. Maybe so, but Corbyn has said he's against freedom of movement. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 So a deal the EU approves of or a deal that sufficient Tory MPs approve of but not both. Most of us have been predicting that for months. If the DUP and, say, 40 Tories refuse to back May it would take a hefty Labour rebellion for her to get her plan approved. I guess we will see just how deep the hatred of Corbyn is amongst Labour MPs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Maybe so, but Corbyn has said he's against freedom of movement.“Labour’s six tests include a comprehensive trade agreement as well as continued co-operation on science, security, research and technology. The party argues that it is reasonable to demand a deal that provides the “exact same benefits” from Europe as EU membership — given that the phrase was first used by David Davis, former Brexit secretary”Quoted from here: https://www.ft.com/content/31653510-b6a6-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1Obvs these Labour rebels could collectively shit themselves again but it seems a cogent strategy for forcing a collapse of the government. Whether Labour would win that remains to be seen. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidane's child Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 If Labour chose to rebel against Corbyn at this stage, given the position of May/Tories then it would fair to say they would have "Hibsed it"! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 5 minutes ago, NotThePars said: “Labour’s six tests include a comprehensive trade agreement as well as continued co-operation on science, security, research and technology. The party argues that it is reasonable to demand a deal that provides the “exact same benefits” from Europe as EU membership — given that the phrase was first used by David Davis, former Brexit secretary” Quoted from here: https://www.ft.com/content/31653510-b6a6-11e8-b3ef-799c8613f4a1 Obvs these Labour rebels could collectively shit themselves again but it seems a cogent strategy for forcing a collapse of the government. Whether Labour would win that remains to be seen. Thing is Labour aren't offering an alternative, and the electorate know it. If May gets a Customs Union deal and Labour fail to back it, against the swiveled eyed section of the Tory Party, without offering a better route to a better deal, or another referendum, I could see the Tories winning again. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, zidane's child said: If Labour chose to rebel against Corbyn at this stage, given the position of May/Tories then it would fair to say they would have "Hibsed it"! Totally disagree. They won’t have shat themselves or given up, they would be carrying out what they believe is retribution. What’s more they will deny it in public but try to justify it to themselves and their close associates. The only ‘Hibsing’ was when Momentum conceded to a soft policy position at the recent conference. They should have had the balls to take on the Unions and tried to force a far stronger position, even at the risk of losing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) 7 minutes ago, welshbairn said: Thing is Labour aren't offering an alternative, and the electorate know it. If May gets a Customs Union deal and Labour fail to back it, against the swiveled eyed section of the Tory Party, without offering a better route to a better deal, or another referendum, I could see the Tories winning again. Do you think the final scenario is likely to be Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems and the swivel eyed section of the Tory Party against the rump of the Tory party and the DUP? The last election seemed to suggest people voting on the basis of Brexit was pretty low. That could change this time though definitely but I think there's enough ideological distance in most other policy areas that you would have to be pretty committed to one side's possible vision or handling of Brexit, to the exclusion of everything else, to switch your vote. Edited October 14, 2018 by NotThePars 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Just now, NotThePars said: Do you think the final scenario is likely to be Labour, the SNP, the Lib Dems and the swivel eyed section of the Tory Party against the rump of the Tory party and the DUP? 50/50 between that and Labour. the SNP, the Lib Dems and the May supporting section of the Tory Party against the swivel eyed on both sides of the Irish Sea. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotThePars Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Just now, welshbairn said: 50/50 between that and Labour. the SNP, the Lib Dems and the May supporting section of the Tory Party against the swivel eyed on both sides of the Irish Sea. I admit I'll be amazed if the SNP and the non-melt wing of the Labour Party back anything May presents to parliament. I'd say charity bet but we'll need any money we have after Brexit to burn for fuel. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Lambies Doos Posted October 14, 2018 Author Share Posted October 14, 2018 Talks have broken down tonight with no agreement 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidane's child Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 A no deal Brexit or Corbyn. I'm choosing Corbyn all day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
O'Kelly Isley III Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 A no deal Brexit or Corbyn. I'm choosing Corbyn all day.I just get this feeling that May, Corbyn and everyone around them are utterly shiting themselves tonight as they collectively don't have a fucking clue what they are doing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin_Nevis Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 What an absolute fucking farce [emoji38] 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zidane's child Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Also, sending Raab to negotiate with Barnier is like taking a banana to a gun fight. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieThomas Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 (edited) Dominic Raab - deliberate saboteur or Frank Spencer? Your choice. Edited October 14, 2018 by JamieThomas 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 2 hours ago, welshbairn said: Maybe so, but Corbyn has said he's against freedom of movement. Not quite true..... He's actually backtracked on that one, and just like the idea of a peoples vote or a second referendum he's not ruling it out. The man's a non-committal, pathetic waste of space. https://www.politico.eu/article/jeremy-corbyn-backtracks-on-freedom-of-movement-brexit/ 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Read a comment earlier from (I think) Emily Thornberry saying that people are getting presented with a bad Brexit or a No Deal Brexit as if it’s a binary choice when it’s not. She’s spot on. Whether her and her colleagues do anything about it or not is a different matter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongTimeLurker Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 Difficult to see a way out of this without a snap general election and an extension to allow another round of negotiations in the aftermath. From an EU standpoint it's maybe best to just let the clock run down now, take the measures needed to mitigate the biggest problems and just get on with it, so the example is set that leaving is a very bad move. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTJohnboy Posted October 14, 2018 Share Posted October 14, 2018 1 hour ago, LongTimeLurker said: Difficult to see a way out of this without a snap general election and an extension to allow another round of negotiations in the aftermath. From an EU standpoint it's maybe best to just let the clock run down now, take the measures needed to mitigate the biggest problems and just get on with it, so the example is set that leaving is a very bad move. That's beginning to look more and more like a distinct possibility, but there still wouldn't be any guarantee of avoiding a No Deal at the end of the day. What I can't get my head around is how Boris, Rees Mogg, Davis, etc, seem to believe they can lay it on the line to the EU and somehow come up with something Barnier would accept. The Canada + plan certainly won't achieve that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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