Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[zidane's child]

What's the bet that upon achieving Independance, Sturgeon would resign just like Farage et al. after the EU Ref? 

[Peppino Impastato]

3 minutes ago, zidane's child said:

What's the bet that upon achieving Independance, Sturgeon would resign just like Farage et al. after the EU Ref? 

Who cares.  It's about the people of Scotland choosing her successor.  You toons seem to struggle to grasp this.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

The dog barks and the '£350 million for the NHS' bus moves on

[Mark Connolly]

1 hour ago, Mastermind said:

 

The only way I would ever have a moment of doubt is if the Yes campaign spelt out a clear, concrete, definitive justification for us being better off outwith the UK. Economic case, guaranteed membership (or otherwise) of the EU, all infrastructure arrangements and all manner of other things. I’d have to be absolutely certain things would be better and there were no significant risks. I won’t hold my breath, however, and I’m more than happy as things are.

This is something I see all the time from Unionists - why does it have to be definitively better?

The last time round, I decided that I would far rather have Scotland running its own affairs as long as we would be no worse off - it's a subtle but key difference, especially given an independent Scottish Government would be acting in the best interests of Scotland, rather than the south-east of England.

[pandarilla]

This is something I see all the time from Unionists - why does it have to be definitively better?
The last time round, I decided that I would far rather have Scotland running its own affairs as long as we would be no worse off - it's a subtle but key difference, especially given an independent Scottish Government would be acting in the best interests of Scotland, rather than the south-east of England.

People also talk about 'we would be poorer' (or richer tbf) as if that's a clear thing. Countries aren't people, and the economic complexities can't be simplified like that.

For me the economic factor always played second fiddle to closer democracy.

[Crùbag]

SNP have added 1500 members since lunch today. Impressive.

[Peppino Impastato]

7 minutes ago, Mark Connolly said:

This is something I see all the time from Unionists - why does it have to be definitively better?

The last time round, I decided that I would far rather have Scotland running its own affairs as long as we would be no worse off - it's a subtle but key difference, especially given an independent Scottish Government would be acting in the best interests of Scotland, rather than the south-east of England.

What I find mind boggling is to imagine what Scotland could have been like if independent.  We have voted left for sixty three years solid and missed an oil bonanza that genuinely could have made us hands down the richest country in the world.  It's heartbreaking.

 

Instead we've been deindustrialised and hollowed out while suffering population stagnation by Westminster as England votes Tory three times out of four.

Edited June 13, 2018 by Peppino Impastato

[Mark Connolly]

Just now, pandarilla said:

People also talk about 'we would be poorer' (or richer tbf) as if that's a clear thing. Countries aren't people, and the economic complexities can't be simplified like that.

For me the economic factor always played second fiddle to closer democracy.

I'd happily be worse off financially if all the money stayed in Scotland instead of paying for HS2, the third runway at Heathrow or any of the other UK vanity projects that benefit no-one outside the south of England.

[Peppino Impastato]

1 minute ago, Mark Connolly said:

I'd happily be worse off financially if all the money stayed in Scotland instead of paying for HS2, the third runway at Heathrow or any of the other UK vanity projects that benefit no-one outside the south of England.

Trident replacement will cost multiples of the quoted price.  Large scale infrastructure projects always go over budget when run by government and high tech stuff exponentially.  That will cost a trillion pounds.

[Mastermind]

No idea - but he certainly supports Brexit now. Unionism means Brexit. No matter how much even the likes of Ruthie and Mundell keep wittering that “they voted remain”, they’re more interested in keeping Scotland part of a departing UK, at any and every cost.

The majority of Scottish voters support Brexit then going by your logic, given the Unionists beat the Nats in IndyRef. So what’s the problem? Or do you want to admit your spouting garbage?

[Crossbill]

10 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

What I find mind boggling is to imagine what Scotland could have been like if independent.  We have voted left for sixty three years solid and missed an oil bonanza that genuinely could have made us hands down the richest country in the world.  It's heartbreaking.

 

Instead we've been deindustrialised and hollowed out while suffering population stagnation by Westminster as England votes Tory three times out of four.

Reading the McCrone report is the only time I can recall actually crying with rage.

[Peppino Impastato]

2 minutes ago, Crossbill said:

Reading the McCrone report is the only time I can recall actually crying with rage.

Yeah I can't read it makes me too angry.  Everyone in Scotland should know it's contents off by heart.

[D Angelo Barksdale]

Mastermind quite possibly the most ironic username on this forum.

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

I remember the days McCrone was a conspiracy theory that didn't actually exist and the oil was going to run out in about 1990 ( I may be exaggerating with the year). It's amazing we still fall for all the bullshit that we get fed.

[Tony Ferrino]

5 minutes ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Yeah I can't read it makes me too angry.  Everyone in Scotland should know it's contents off by heart.

And why it was buried.

[Peppino Impastato]

3 minutes ago, Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo said:

I remember the days McCrone was a conspiracy theory that didn't actually exist and the oil was going to run out in about 1990 ( I may be exaggerating with the year). It's amazing we still fall for all the bullshit that we get fed.

No you're correct, 'gone by 1990' was actually one of the campaign slogans of the no to devolution camp in 79.   That's the extent of their lies.  Alistair darling said during indyref it would run out in 2017.

[Tony Ferrino]

24 minutes ago, Crùbag said:

SNP have added 1500 members since lunch today. Impressive.

Hopefully mostly as a result of opinions being changed, rather than just hardened.

[Peppino Impastato]

5 minutes ago, Tony Ferrino said:

And why it was buried.

And that's the fundamental reason for independence.  No french government would ever discover something could be great for France and proceed to desperately try to prevent the people of France from finding out about it.  But Scotland's government did that to Scotland.

[BucksburnDandy]

Today confirms what we knew all along. When push comes to shove, the Unionist parties will always put Empire before Scotland.

It's now up to Sturgeon and the SNP to get on with a referendum. It's all well and good sniping from the sidelines but most people will barely pay attention to today. It's up to them to get out on the attack, explain what happened, go beyond the UK leaning media if necessary and open up the alternative, which is to go independent.

By November, Sturgeon will have to come to this decision, otherwise we are stuck with Brexit Britain.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

This. 100x this. People will only pay attention to today's events if any future Yes campaign properly pushes it down people's throats. They need to be relentless, because you know that the No lot will be equally so, if not moreso in their bullshit.

I did say yesterday that it was important for the SNP to go on the attack and go beyond the media to do so. Today was a good start, on a solid principle about devolution.

The reaction has been fascinating, seeing some people start to wake up to the reality of what is happening to our Parliament. It's now up to our side to build on it. That means continual attack, not sitting back thinking it has made a difference. They must back this up with actions, using as many arcane rules of Parliament as possible to disrupt this bill. Meanwhile the SNP and other Yes groups need to get boots on the ground to get campaigning.

Whether Sturgeon had approval of this, I'm not sure, I'd imagine so. If others have forced her hand, good. We can't sit back any longer. It hasn't worked up to now and never would have. The referendum has to come soon.

I've always said I'd never join a political party but after the last week or so, despite policy differences with them in major areas, I'm close to joining the SNP.

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[Antlion]

1 hour ago, Mastermind said:

 

The majority of Scottish voters support Brexit then going by your logic, given the Unionists beat the Nats in IndyRef. So what’s the problem? Or do you want to admit your spouting garbage?

 

The indyref was before Brexit. In fact, your mob assured us that a “No” vote would ensure our EU rights and privileges. We voted to be part of an EU member state in 2014. We’ve never been asked if we want to be part of Brexit Britain. You apparently think we should, needing no assurances as to whether it will work for us or not.