Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[Antlion]

7 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

Subversive; challenging or attempting to subvert an established form of government or institutional power? It doesn’t necessarily attract a critical or insulting label/definition if that’s what you mean?

And so as a UK nationalist, you’re “subversive” for supporting a state that is seeking to challenge an established form of government and institutional power: the EU.

Surely it’s sunk in that unionism means Brexit by now.

Edited February 12, 2018 by Antlion

[RedRob72]

And so as a UK nationalist, you’re “subversive” for supporting a state that is seeking to challenge an established form of government and institutional power: the EU.
Surely it’s sunk in that unionism means Brexit by now.

Think we covered that one a couple of pages back up the thread. Supportive of the Union both in the UK & Europe. Yes it’s a difficult position to take up given how things are unfolding.

[Antlion]

10 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

Think we covered that one a couple of pages back up the thread. Supportive of the Union both in the UK & Europe. Yes it’s a difficult position to take up given how things are unfolding.

 

Ah, so it hasn’t sunk in. That’s not an option (difficult or otherwise). There is no way of supporting both unions. Your party has made very clear that Brexit is happening no matter what, because the voters of England and Wales have demanded it.

Unionism means Brexit.

If you espouse the first, you support the second. Thus, I’m afraid, you’ve thrown in your lot with the “subversives”. Presumably supporting challenging a system of governmental institution (or subversion, as you term it), is a price worth paying to deny Scotland sovereign statehood. 

[RedRob72]

Ah, so it hasn’t sunk in. That’s not an option (difficult or otherwise). There is no way of supporting both unions. Your party has made very clear that Brexit is happening no matter what, because the voters of England and Wales have demanded it.
Unionism means Brexit.
If you espouse the first, you support the second. Thus, I’m afraid, you’ve thrown in your lot with the “subversives”. Presumably supporting challenging a system of governmental institution (or subversion, as you term it), is a price worth paying to deny Scotland sovereign statehood. 

Neatly boxed, and I’m sure that makes sense to you, but it seems as though that argument will continue to go round in circles. Millions of us voted to remain within the United Kingdom and in the European Union irrespective of party political persuasion.
That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority.
In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time.
That the UK voted to leave the EU was a huge surprise for most observers and commentators not least a shock for the general public too, on both sides of the divide.

[Jeff Venom]

That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority.
In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time.

Obviously we are where we are because the Tories wanted the ref and delivered it on the back of a manifesto pledge - but at the time of setting the questions, was a differentiated vote across the "regions" even a thing that could have been, or was, lobbied for?

[Antlion]

1 hour ago, RedRob72 said:

Neatly boxed, and I’m sure that makes sense to you, but it seems as though that argument will continue to go round in circles. Millions of us voted to remain within the United Kingdom and in the European Union irrespective of party political persuasion.
That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority.
In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time.
That the UK voted to leave the EU was a huge surprise for most observers and commentators not least a shock for the general public too, on both sides of the divide.

And now that the vote is a done deal, and the UK is leaving the EU despite how the nation of Scotland (or region, if you prefer) voted. Therefore to continue supporting incorporating union on these island is to support Brexit. Brexit is the unalterable direction of the UK, as we’re constantly reminded by all the UK nationalist parties. 

You might not have wanted it, but now it’s UK policy, unionism means Brexit. You can’t live in the past to try and avoid that fact.

[Antlion]

9 minutes ago, Jeff Venom said:

 

 

Obviously we are where we are because the Tories wanted the ref and delivered it on the back of a manifesto pledge - but at the time of setting the questions, was a differentiated vote across the "regions" even a thing that could have been, or was, lobbied for?

 

Rob’s party rejected even the possibility of a double majority, presumably because it would give Scotland too much of a say.

[John Lambies Doos]

Obviously we are where we are because the Tories wanted the ref and delivered it on the back of a manifesto pledge - but at the time of setting the questions, was a differentiated vote across the "regions" even a thing that could have been, or was, lobbied for?

Ironically Nicola offered Cameron a back up in the 'family of equal nations' gig; ie needed all 4 countries to vote leave. Cameron, who invented the jackanory equal nations gig, ignored her and lost Europe. What a p***k

[Peppino Impastato]

Robs so craven it's comical

[williemillersmoustache]

4 hours ago, RedRob72 said:

Neatly boxed, and I’m sure that makes sense to you, but it seems as though that argument will continue to go round in circles. Millions of us voted to remain within the United Kingdom and in the European Union irrespective of party political persuasion.
That 52% Voted to leave the EU across the UK,would force the hand of the government whoever was in power. Perhaps they should have just ignored the majority.
In hindsight it might have been useful to have our own vote on the EU, the same being offered to NI, Eng & Wales, unfortunately it wasn’t an option at the time.
That the UK voted to leave the EU was a huge surprise for most observers and commentators not least a shock for the general public too, on both sides of the divide.

The cognitive dissonance on display here is alarming. 

I voted to have ice cream and a piping hot cup of tea in the same mug and i'll do so again, no surrender to thermodynamics, WATP etc. 

[Jeff Venom]

The cognitive dissonance on display here is alarming. 
I voted to have ice cream and a piping hot cup of tea in the same mug and i'll do so again, no surrender to thermodynamics, WATP etc. 

Denied entropy to the single market and CU

[Granny Danger]

1 hour ago, Peppino Impastato said:

Robs so craven it's comical

Rob Craven and Glen Minter.

[Ira Gaines]

It's outstanding that Rob Craven sounds like a perfectly normal name. Think we should just stick with that.

[williemillersmoustache]

6 minutes ago, Randy Giles said:

It's outstanding that Rob Craven sounds like a perfectly normal name. Think we should just stick with that.

"And now over to Rob Craven for bullshit Newsround (for ages 12 under)"

[Crossbill]

1 hour ago, williemillersmoustache said:

"And now over to Rob Craven for bullshit Newsround (for ages 60 over)"

ftfy

[RedRob72]

The cognitive dissonance on display here is alarming. 
I voted to have ice cream and a piping hot cup of tea in the same mug and i'll do so again, no surrender to thermodynamics, WATP etc. 

I can’t disagree with that, I said a few pages up, that between a rock and a hard place is indeed an uncomfortable spot to roll out the picnic rug and basket at present (in relation to British Unionism and European Brexit).
I’m neither ignoring or turning a blind eye to the situation, how that labels me a coward (and hundreds of thousands of other Scots), Im really unsure.

[RedRob72]

Robs so craven it's comical

 

It isn’t me that plans to do a runner if things don’t go my way Pep.

You seem to have your escape route already mapped out. This is something you claim to ‘hold dear’, apparently not. What utter shite!! And you have the front to mouth insults such as craven, when you yourself exemplify the definition. Jeez.[emoji849]

 

[NotThePars]

We’ve already established that Peppino is literally going to flee the country and live in exile if another democratic vote doesn’t go his way.

[Antlion]

23 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

I can’t disagree with that, I said a few pages up, that between a rock and a hard place is indeed an uncomfortable spot to roll out the picnic rug and basket at present (in relation to British Unionism and European Brexit).
I’m neither ignoring or turning a blind eye to the situation, how that labels me a coward (and hundreds of thousands of other Scots), Im really unsure.

 

It labels you a fantasist. You’re professing to espouse a nonexistent position, whilst supporting a party that volubly denies that position. In your continued and unalloyed support of UK unionism, you’ve turned your back on European unionism. The two are mutually exclusive positions. In the wake of the EU referendum, you can only support one or the other, because the two are pulling in diametrically opposed directions.

Once again, Rob: unionism means Brexit. Has that sunk in yet?

 

ETA: where did willie label you a “coward”?

Edited February 12, 2018 by Antlion

[Peppino Impastato]

17 minutes ago, RedRob72 said:

 

It isn’t me that plans to do a runner if things don’t go my way Pep.

You seem to have your escape route already mapped out. This is something you claim to ‘hold dear’, apparently not. What utter shite!! And you have the front to mouth insults such as craven, when you yourself exemplify the definition. Jeez.

 

I think you and NTP really need to look up the definition of the word craven.  Saying things like long may they reign over us, as you did about the royal family, and being delighted for Scotland's democratic wishes to be completely ignored, as you always are, is also craven. My words are not.

 

Subservience to unelected billionaires is something you celebrate, and moves to defy the democratic will of the country you live in you support.  That's craven Wes. You're craven.