Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[doulikefish]

The hotline for the devolved parliaments is really good,it only takes 36hrs to answer

[Redstarstranraer]

On 05/10/2016 at 17:28, McSpreader said:

A trolling simpleton he says and then wastes  bandwidth on me .....Ahem!

 

5 hours ago, McSpreader said:

Btw...... I have no idea what trolling means

Ahem!

[topcat(The most tip top)]

Open your eyes,
Look up to the skies and see,

This is poor banter

It needs no sympathy

[Wee Willie]

1 hour ago, Antlion said:

Henry VIII and his father might have liked it, given they claimed suzerainty over Scotland, and that the Scottish kings only held Scotland by their homage. Henry VII - as a Welshman - was particularly keen on a "united Albion", and pointed out that even if a Scottish King succeeded to the throne of England (as happened a century later), it would represent England gaining Scotland rather than the other way round.

They might have liked it but it's the auld story of repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth.

It's like Mrs Windsor claiming to be the second Elizabeth of the UK.

Say it often enough and some folk numpties will believe it.

[Lurkst]

2 hours ago, Wee Willie said:

Only the BBC and some other numpties would call Henry VIII British.

What about Henry XIII, monarch of the future...?

[Redstarstranraer]

7 hours ago, McSpreader said:

you didn't ( couldn't) defend the SNP's record of lowering educational attainment in our schools and failure to assist pupils from less affluent background.

Lower investment in the NHS compared to England/Wales. Low morale and unsustainable budget cuts. 

The total mess they've made of   reorganising The Scottish Police Service, which is barely fit for purpose.

The centralising of power in to Holyrood.

Politically naïve decision to freeze Council Tax thus denying local authorities of crucial funds leading to reduced services, closures, lack of investment.

The insistence on pushing on with party political agendas rather than focussing on The National Interests.

I wish all  that was satirical but ' fraid not.  Feel free to prove their record is not as I claim.

You see the thing is it's not for me to defend absolutely everything the SNP government has done or to somehow 'disprove' your tedious rendition of 'SNPbad: The Greatest Hits', as you well know.  Your original ludicrous contention was that Scotland (and it was Scotland as you initially formulated it) was too 'politically immature' to be an independent state. Now we've gone from that to it just being the SNP that were 'immature', to this insistence I disprove your tendentious view of their record in government. Essentially your initial point was vacuous nonsense so you're now scrambling around trying to change the topic.  Even if any of the above was a remotely accurate characterisation of the contemporary Scottish political context (and it isn't) then it would still not prove your asinine contention that Scotland was somehow not 'mature' enough to be an independent state.  

Evidently if I don't say anything about the 'substantive' points you claim to have made however you'll run off, claim victory and portray yourself again as the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind, when really you're more the one-braincelled man in the kingdom of the reasonably intelligent.

On education clearly Curriculum for Excellence has had teething problems and there have been issues with its implementation (an issue not just for the Scottish Government but the councils) but overall it has been positively assessed by the OECD.  I don't imagine the OECD are only giving it credit out of fear of an overly 'aggressive' response from the SNP.  Class sizes in primary one have been drastically reduced and many schools rebuilt or refurbished.  More pupils are gaining Highers and they are also gaining better results.  Personally I think that given the climate of austerity and the financial settlement from Westminster cutting part-time college courses in favour of full-time equivalents was the sensible course of action as well.  In terms of Higher Education Scottish universities are actually doing better in terms of research output and securing research funding than anywhere else in the UK.  Not to mention there are still no tuition fees and at the other end of the spectrum childcare provision has been substantially increased.

Of course there are things to criticise and the suggestion that standards in numeracy and literacy have fallen in some age groups should be critically examined.  I'd also say Angela Constance was somewhat out her depth as Education secretary and it is a positive she has been replaced by Swinney.  The 'attainment gap' is a serious issue and ought to be addressed (indeed it is welcome that the SNP have made a commitment to do so) but to pretend it hasn't been an issue in Scotland for decades if not centuries is just disingenuous waffle; quite clearly the SNP did not create such a gap in the past nine years.  It quite clearly exists down south as well and the policies Ruth Davidson would presumably advocate of tuition fees and grammar schools would no doubt exacerbate the issue.

So evidently there are issues with Scottish education but it isn't the horrendous failure critics of the current administration would like to portray.  Certainly it isn't such a disaster as to call into question the general 'competence' of the government or Scotland's ability to be independent.

The NHS is hardly perfect either but I would contend the SNP have done a better job of maintaining resource levels and weathering financial pressure than their counterparts at Westminster.  Of course boards are under financial pressure but all the boards in Scotland are currently meeting their financial targets.  Patient satisfaction is higher and waiting times are lower than anywhere else in the UK.  More funding would be great but given the paucity of options the Scottish government has (and will have) for raising extra revenue quite clearly whilst within the UK our options for improving funding levels are seriously restricted.  And at least the Scottish (Welsh and NI) government(s) haven't picked a ludicrous fight with junior doctors; if you want to see really low morale in the NHS take a trip down to Jeremy Hunt's patch.

The reorganisation of Police Scotland had cross party support.  Pretty sure the police service up here is still functioning last time I checked.  Clearly there have been difficulties but in general the reorganisation was a sensible move.  It would be nice if the UK Treasury dropped its petty insistence on charging them VAT as well.

Aside from the reorganisation of the police and fire services what real evidence of this 'centralisation' agenda is there?  It's a fairly tired unionist canard especially spun by the lib/con politicians of the south and Highlands to portray the SNP as central-belt Scots who don't understand or care for the rest of Scotland.  Aside from the fact there's no evidence for that being true there's also equally little evidence the unionist parties have the slightest interest in rural Scotland either.

I actually do not agree with the manner in which the SNP have retained the Council Tax and would have preferred they move to a Local Income Tax or at least be further along the process of doing so.  Most local government expenditure is funded by the block grant from the Scottish government, the Council Tax would have had to rise very substantially to offset the cuts in that grant.  Of course anyone with half a brain can trace the genesis of these cuts back to Cameron and Osbourne's austerity agenda in Westminster, which led to the general cuts in government expenditure across the UK.  You just don't want to connect the dots.

The bit about focusing on 'party political agendas' and not the 'national interest' is just meaningless drivel as per and I've already dealt with that.

So you see you can make reasoned criticism of the SNP government's record.  Indeed at no time did I allege their record in government was perfect.  Then again I doubt any government anywhere in the world has a 'perfect' record, what with there not being, last time I checked, an actual utopia out there.  The record of the SNP on the other hand is clearly not one of unmitigated failure as you'd like to portray it.  Indeed as has already been pointed out to you they've been reelected twice, demonstrating they possess the general confidence of the Scottish public, and are also on certain of the issues you're apparently concerned about are demonstrably doing a better job than their counterparts across the UK. Nor does their record have any real bearing on whether or not Scotland should or could be independent.  There is absolutely nothing in what you've said to back up your original pathetic argument that Scotland was 'too immature' to govern itself.

I can't see how you really expect to be taken seriously when you claim on the one hand, in all apparent seriousness, that the SNP can't be criticised and you wouldn't be surprised to be hauled off to the jail for your 'daring' dissent against the Scottish government whilst at the same time pretending to be 'satirical' about claiming to live under a 'democratic dictatorship'.  Mind you I don't think you actually understand what satire is.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Redstarstranraer

[Billy Jean King]

7 hours ago, McSpreader said:

And after all that  which basically amounts to nothing but abuse and the overuse of smilies, you didn't ( couldn't) defend the SNP's record of lowering educational attainment in our schools and failure to assist pupils from less affluent background.

Lower investment in the NHS compared to England/Wales. Low morale and unsustainable budget cuts.

The total mess they've made of   reorganising The Scottish Police Service, which is barely fit for purpose.

The centralising of power in to Holyrood.

Politically naïve decision to freeze Council Tax thus denying local authorities of crucial funds leading to reduced services, closures, lack of investment.

The insistence on pushing on with party political agendas rather than focussing on The National Interests.

I wish all  that was satirical but ' fraid not.  Feel free to prove their record is not as I claim.

It's a poor show and time you Woke Up And Smelt The Coffee ( and before you start I know it's 'smelled' but I also know how anal you can be)

Btw...... I have no idea what trolling means and I really can't be bothered to look it up.

 

 

Stop quoting the front page of the Daily Mail and start researching these things yourself.

Oh and on the C/Tax freeze wait until you hear this belter. My LA has a Tory / Labour pact and since uniting solely to keep the SNP out of the town hall they have roared from the rooftops that the SNP C/Tax freeze was starving the Council thus causing all their financial woes. So when the freeze was abolished and a rise of up to 3% can be implimented what are those same hypocrits saying now......that for "the good of the people" they might not be increasing Council Tax so as not to hit the people in the pocket. All very comndable until you realise that the budget meeting announcing the new C/tax rates will be less than 8 weeks before the Council elections. Truly and utterly pathetic and hopefully the rock these total wasters will perish on. Hypocricy of the highest order.

 

[mjw]

“I accept on one level if we’re leaving the EU then essentially we are leaving the single market'....
'but our access to the single market can continue in a way that doesn’t involve tariffs or barriers' David Mundell.

Anyone?

[strichener]

1 hour ago, kilbowie2002 said:

Its not even a petty insistence on paying VAT its single handedly the reason the Force isnt coping.

According to the Scottish Government and the SPA, Police Scotland has received additional funding to made good the VAT Expense and that Police Scotland did not lose out as a result.  If this is true then the VAT status of Police Scotland is immaterial or perhaps we are being lied to by the authorities.

[JamieThomas]

22 hours ago, McSpreader said:

Perhaps my post was too long for your attention span . I'll keep it more concise in future, maybe use textspeak to shorten it further.....Probably the truth is that you could see exactly where I was scoring good points and simply had no answer for that........that's the usual reason for silly posts like yours.

Brevity is the soul of wit, m8.

[McSpreader]

3 hours ago, Redstarstranraer said:

You see the thing is it's not for me to defend absolutely everything the SNP government has done or to somehow 'disprove' your tedious rendition of 'SNPbad: The Greatest Hits', as you well know.  Your original ludicrous contention was that Scotland (and it was Scotland as you initially formulated it) was too 'politically immature' to be an independent state. Now we've gone from that to it just being the SNP that were 'immature', to this insistence I disprove your tendentious view of their record in government. Essentially your initial point was vacuous nonsense so you're now scrambling around trying to change the topic.  Even if any of the above was a remotely accurate characterisation of the contemporary Scottish political context (and it isn't) then it would still not prove your asinine contention that Scotland was somehow not 'mature' enough to be an independent state.  

Evidently if I don't say anything about the 'substantive' points you claim to have made however you'll run off, claim victory and portray yourself again as the one-eyed man in the kingdom of the blind, when really you're more the one-braincelled man in the kingdom of the reasonably intelligent.

On education clearly Curriculum for Excellence has had teething problems and there have been issues with its implementation (an issue not just for the Scottish Government but the councils) but overall it has been positively assessed by the OECD.  I don't imagine the OECD are only giving it credit out of fear of an overly 'aggressive' response from the SNP.  Class sizes in primary one have been drastically reduced and many schools rebuilt or refurbished.  More pupils are gaining Highers and they are also gaining better results.  Personally I think that given the climate of austerity and the financial settlement from Westminster cutting part-time college courses in favour of full-time equivalents was the sensible course of action as well.  In terms of Higher Education Scottish universities are actually doing better in terms of research output and securing research funding than anywhere else in the UK.  Not to mention there are still no tuition fees and at the other end of the spectrum childcare provision has been substantially increased.

Of course there are things to criticise and the suggestion that standards in numeracy and literacy have fallen in some age groups should be critically examined.  I'd also say Angela Constance was somewhat out her depth as Education secretary and it is a positive she has been replaced by Swinney.  The 'attainment gap' is a serious issue and ought to be addressed (indeed it is welcome that the SNP have made a commitment to do so) but to pretend it hasn't been an issue in Scotland for decades if not centuries is just disingenuous waffle; quite clearly the SNP did not create such a gap in the past nine years.  It quite clearly exists down south as well and the policies Ruth Davidson would presumably advocate of tuition fees and grammar schools would no doubt exacerbate the issue.

So evidently there are issues with Scottish education but it isn't the horrendous failure critics of the current administration would like to portray.  Certainly it isn't such a disaster as to call into question the general 'competence' of the government or Scotland's ability to be independent.

The NHS is hardly perfect either but I would contend the SNP have done a better job of maintaining resource levels and weathering financial pressure than their counterparts at Westminster.  Of course boards are under financial pressure but all the boards in Scotland are currently meeting their financial targets.  Patient satisfaction is higher and waiting times are lower than anywhere else in the UK.  More funding would be great but given the paucity of options the Scottish government has (and will have) for raising extra revenue quite clearly whilst within the UK our options for improving funding levels are seriously restricted.  And at least the Scottish (Welsh and NI) government(s) haven't picked a ludicrous fight with junior doctors; if you want to see really low morale in the NHS take a trip down to Jeremy Hunt's patch.

The reorganisation of Police Scotland had cross party support.  Pretty sure the police service up here is still functioning last time I checked.  Clearly there have been difficulties but in general the reorganisation was a sensible move.  It would be nice if the UK Treasury dropped its petty insistence on charging them VAT as well.

Aside from the reorganisation of the police and fire services what real evidence of this 'centralisation' agenda is there?  It's a fairly tired unionist canard especially spun by the lib/con politicians of the south and Highlands to portray the SNP as central-belt Scots who don't understand or care for the rest of Scotland.  Aside from the fact there's no evidence for that being true there's also equally little evidence the unionist parties have the slightest interest in rural Scotland either.

I actually do not agree with the manner in which the SNP have retained the Council Tax and would have preferred they move to a Local Income Tax or at least be further along the process of doing so.  Most local government expenditure is funded by the block grant from the Scottish government, the Council Tax would have had to rise very substantially to offset the cuts in that grant.  Of course anyone with half a brain can trace the genesis of these cuts back to Cameron and Osbourne's austerity agenda in Westminster, which led to the general cuts in government expenditure across the UK.  You just don't want to connect the dots.

The bit about focusing on 'party political agendas' and not the 'national interest' is just meaningless drivel as per and I've already dealt with that.

So you see you can make reasoned criticism of the SNP government's record.  Indeed at no time did I allege their record in government was perfect.  Then again I doubt any government anywhere in the world has a 'perfect' record, what with there not being, last time I checked, an actual utopia out there.  The record of the SNP on the other hand is clearly not one of unmitigated failure as you'd like to portray it.  Indeed as has already been pointed out to you they've been reelected twice, demonstrating they possess the general confidence of the Scottish public, and are also on certain of the issues you're apparently concerned about are demonstrably doing a better job than their counterparts across the UK. Nor does their record have any real bearing on whether or not Scotland should or could be independent.  There is absolutely nothing in what you've said to back up your original pathetic argument that Scotland was 'too immature' to govern itself.

I can't see how you really expect to be taken seriously when you claim on the one hand, in all apparent seriousness, that the SNP can't be criticised and you wouldn't be surprised to be hauled off to the jail for your 'daring' dissent against the Scottish government whilst at the same time pretending to be 'satirical' about claiming to live under a 'democratic dictatorship'.  Mind you I don't think you actually understand what satire is.

Wow! And the award for 'longest post of pish' goes to......... RedStarStranraer.

Couple of points....I said our politicians are politically immature, not that Scotland was politically immature that's your disingenuous waffle. Go back and read the original post. So you've disproved nothing.

I don't know why you feel you have to  try to pull apart my highlighting of the awful record of the SNP in Government whilst at the same time agreeing with me....Why not simply agree with me at the outset instead of tying yourself in knots?

Focusing on party political pish isn't drivel and No. you haven't dealt with it. I have.  The SNP should drop the indyref bollocks and sort out our education system that's failing our kids ( which you and I agree on !!) You compare it with 'Down South' WTF? That's irrelevant. If our kids are getting a shit education and Down South is getting a worse one ( which they are not btw) is that ok? As for the Uni's.....It's a hollow source of pride if children from less affluent backgrounds are suffering to get a decent basic education whilst middle class kids, rich kids and foreign students are doing well at Uni.

They should drop the indyref bollocks and sort out the Scottish NHS where a report out today agreed with everything I said about low morale , underfunding and unsustainable budget cuts. NHS is not keeping pace with demand. Key targets missed, Increasing cost pressure etc ......... You can just watch Reporting Scotland tonight then come back if you  still think I'm talking pish .

You agree with me  that the SNP is centralising power, but criticise me for highlighting it....What's that about? And, no, the SNP don't give a f*ck about the Borders.

You agree that  the SNP aren't perfect but don't like someone else saying it. Even Sturgeon said tonight they're not perfect.

Going back to my original argument, I stand by what I said about our second rate politicians delivering a second rate political service to the Scottish people.  That manifests itself in this constant obsession with indyref2 , the lack of tolerance to criticism and going all out to undermine  Brexit as personified by Alyn Smith's cringeworthy plea to Brussels to 'Not Let Scotland Down'. So f*cking embarrassing.

 Any decent Scottish politicians always end up 'Down South'. If we could stop that happening we might have a chance.

Any way, don't bother trying to deconstruct this post. I'm not interested in your opinion because you don't read my posts properly and you end up slagging me off and at the same time agreeing with me....

[McSpreader]

1 hour ago, JamieThomas said:

Brevity is the soul of wit, m8.

I'll try to  take that on board !

Tell that to Redstarstranraer as well.

Edited October 27, 2016 by McSpreader

[welshbairn]

7 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I'll try to  take that on board !

Tell that to Redstarstranraer as well.

You should take it as a compliment that Redstarstranraer is willing to give a lengthy response to your pish. I lost the will long ago.

[strichener]

Utter bollocks given the well documented financial problems. Getting rid of the VAT bill would ensure there were absolutely no financial problems. Indeed they could actually afford to have more staff and do more.

Just because they have financial problems does not make it related to their VAT bill if this was taken into account when the funding decisions were made. Most of the NHS is in deficit where they cannot make the lazy claim that it is due to a change in VAT status.
I think it is entirely reasonable to state that Police Scotland is underfunded but this is not to as a result of VAT. Even if you were to accept that the Government is having to fund this and therefore cannot spend that money on other priorities, there is no guarantee that it wouldn't go towards their free childcare financial hole rather that the Police.

[sophia]

28 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Wow! And the award for 'longest post of pish' goes to......... RedStarStranraer.

Couple of points....I said our politicians are politically immature, not that Scotland was politically immature that's your disingenuous waffle. Go back and read the original post. So you've disproved nothing.

I don't know why you feel you have to  try to pull apart my highlighting of the awful record of the SNP in Government whilst at the same time agreeing with me....Why not simply agree with me at the outset instead of tying yourself in knots?

Focusing on party political pish isn't drivel and No. you haven't dealt with it. I have.  The SNP should drop the indyref bollocks and sort out our education system that's failing our kids ( which you and I agree on !!) You compare it with 'Down South' WTF? That's irrelevant. If our kids are getting a shit education and Down South is getting a worse one ( which they are not btw) is that ok? As for the Uni's.....It's a hollow source of pride if children from less affluent backgrounds are suffering to get a decent basic education whilst middle class kids, rich kids and foreign students are doing well at Uni.

They should drop the indyref bollocks and sort out the Scottish NHS where a report out today agreed with everything I said about low morale , underfunding and unsustainable budget cuts. NHS is not keeping pace with demand. Key targets missed, Increasing cost pressure etc ......... You can just watch Reporting Scotland tonight then come back if you  still think I'm talking pish .

You agree with me  that the SNP is centralising power, but criticise me for highlighting it....What's that about? And, no, the SNP don't give a f*ck about the Borders.

You agree that  the SNP aren't perfect but don't like someone else saying it. Even Sturgeon said tonight they're not perfect.

Going back to my original argument, I stand by what I said about our second rate politicians delivering a second rate political service to the Scottish people.  That manifests itself in this constant obsession with indyref2 , the lack of tolerance to criticism and going all out to undermine  Brexit as personified by Alyn Smith's cringeworthy plea to Brussels to 'Not Let Scotland Down'. So f*cking embarrassing.

 Any decent Scottish politicians always end up 'Down South'. If we could stop that happening we might have a chance.

Any way, don't bother trying to deconstruct this post. I'm not interested in your opinion because you don't read my posts properly and you end up slagging me off and at the same time agreeing with me....

How embarrassing 

 

[Cyclizine]

I work in NHS Scotland in a clinical role. It's fair to say things have got worse over the last few years. However, the main cause of this is a lack of staff and an increase in workload. This is not just a Scottish problem, but UK wide - although it is certainly worse up here.

Causes? Aging population, who are living longer. Complex patients with multiple health problems. Lack of community and family care for the frail elderly. Increase in medical technology and our ability to intervene. Poor workforce planning over many years.

It isn't all doom and gloom. Morale seems better up here, community/hospital relationships seem better. I think generally, the NHS here is genuinely something to be proud of.

[Redstarstranraer]

54 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

Any way, don't bother trying to deconstruct this post. I'm not interested in your opinion because you don't read my posts properly and you end up slagging me off and at the same time agreeing with me...

Don't worry I won't.  I think everyone can see for themselves the embarrassing level of waffle and 'tying yourself in knots' to which you've been reduced.

 

44 minutes ago, welshbairn said:

You should take it as a compliment that Redstarstranraer is willing to give a lengthy response to your pish. I lost the will long ago.

The will has now departed, I won't be bothering again.

[DublinMagyar]

The will has now departed, I won't be bothering again.

I've no idea how you lasted this long. I gave up on finding any sign of intelligence in McSpreader's posts months ago. An embarrassment to himself and all unionists.

[jamamafegan]

Suprised that nobody is discussing the EU Canada trade deal that now looks likely to go ahead. EU getting stronger while Brexit remains a shambles.

[Todders]

Are you advocating a federal structure for the UK?

No, im advocating full independence and always have.

Federalusm would be a step abive the omnishambles that the UK is right now though.