Brexit slowly becoming a Farce.

[McSpreader]

41 minutes ago, Jamaldo said:

 

 

Stornoway and the rest of the island is certainly a bit more diverse than it probably was when I was born.

There definitely seems to be an element of people that have to be surronded completely by other white British people. I'm not even talking about the EDL or other morons like that. I'm on about normal people who get raging at the mere sight of a Polish shop. Why? Why does it affect them? These are just normal people trying to make a living like people who were born and brought up in the UK.

The "they're taking our jobs" argument is a complete non-starter. Certain employers take advantage of immigrants and pay them a crap wage because they're (the immigrants) desperate and don't know the laws. That isn't their fault. Again, they are simply trying to get by.

Like I said, if it wasn't for this type of voter, Leave wouldn't have won and we'd still be in a union which, while not perfect, is not the total dictatorship it's made it out to be. As it happens, maybe we will still be part of it.

 

I agree with  you re: immigrants working hard and wanting to contribute and my impression, when you push through the fog of the argument, is that the vast majority of the 17million Leave voters have no problem with foreigners on an individual basis.

I think the biggest negative effects of mass immigration is the excuse employers have for not training, upskilling or investing in training schemes for British workers and the speed of change. To simply dismiss and disparage people, as the politicians ( remember Gordon Brown?) and the media do, with their happy, clappy, fantasy  multi -cultural agenda, because voters have serious reservations is the reason for Brexit and the rise of UKIP in rUK.

If politicians listened instead of lectured we wouldn't be in the position we are now, but, of course, they always know better.

[DublinMagyar]

People born here lose out? But you're not a xenophobic racist nationalist? Like yes voters are called

[Ya Bezzer!]

4 hours ago, McSpreader said:

You probably don't realise that a lot of Leave voters aren't against immigration per se, but against the scale, the impact on their communities, the strain on local services and resources, the lack of control over who comes in and the fact they do not benefit  but see big business and the wealthy benefitting from cheap labour. It may be about prejudice for some but for the majority it's about the negative impact on their daily lives.....and the fact they are constantly lectured at by politicians who don't suffer the consequences.

The whole idea of a state representing a native people and its traditions is history.  Globalisation has knocked that for six and unless the entire world economy takes a completely different path as a result of some terrible disaster its not coming back.

It's one of those ironies that the very people who now decry immigration are the very people that put control of the economic markets into private hands.  It's the very same people that destroyed the British state through Thatcherism that now suddenly want to go backwards.  But what these people have failed to realise is that nationalism is subservient to the markets now.  Privatization and the dropping of controls means private profit, not the continuation of a nationalist state, is the be all and end all of government policy.

They destroyed, strip mined, cut to the bone the British state for their own greed, profiteering off stolen national assets, now the full consequences are apparently and its a different story and two generations of working class and lower middle class 'conservatives' want to go into full rewind mode back to a time before there own decisions destroyed the country.  This world that they seem to hate so much is a direct consequence of their own stupid, greedy, pocket lining.

Impact on communities? Your figurehead said there was no such thing as society.  Local services, stripped away by 40 years of right wing governments.  Lack of control, well who gave it away?  Big business and the wealthy, the trickle down didn't trickle down like the left said it wouldn't?

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Ya Bezzer!

[Cream Cheese]

We are leaving the EU. The Tories planned for a Brexit vote in advance when they offered a £9 per hour wage by 2020, as they knew it would be worth considerably less than £6.50 is worth now after Brexit. There were other policies they offered at the time as well which seemed decent, but weren't what they seemed. They were always planning for this outcome as it was the outcome they decided would occur.

Edited September 8, 2016 by Cream Cheese

[John Lambies Doos]

We are leaving the EU. The Tories planned for a Brexit vote in advance when they offered a £9 per hour wage by 2020, as they knew it would be worth considerably less than £6.50 is worth now after Brexit. There were other policies they offered at the time as well which seemed decent, but weren't what they seemed. They were always planning for this outcome as it was the outcome they decided would occur.

Not so sure CC
Think she is setting some up to fail.. and a watered down, but really stay, will be agreed
People are idiots

[Cream Cheese]

1 hour ago, John Lambies Doos said:

 

 

Not so sure CC
Think she is setting some up to fail.. and a watered down, but really stay, will be agreed
People are idiots

 

 

The UK will officially leave the EU. The relationship that we have with the EU can't be all that different though. The economic ramifications of drastically altering the kind of relationship that we already have with the EU would be disastrous. Even the brexit politicians knew this, which is why they all fell into hibernation directly after the vote. All the EU referendum has achieved is an increase in racism and xenophobia not to mention the divisions caused between young and old. But as long the UK gov has us all fighting amongst ourselves, they have a free pass to do whatever they like. The Tories have always operated this way. Divide and conquer.

[strichener]

42 minutes ago, Cream Cheese said:

The UK will officially leave the EU. The relationship that we have with the EU can't be all that different though. The economic ramifications of drastically altering the kind of relationship that we already have with the EU would be disastrous. Even the brexit politicians knew this, which is why they all fell into hibernation directly after the vote. All the EU referendum has achieved is an increase in racism and xenophobia not to mention the divisions caused between young and old. But as long the UK gov has us all fighting amongst ourselves, they have a free pass to do whatever they like. The Tories have always operated this way. Divide and conquer.

I am sure that this is you:

[Joey Jo Jo Junior Shabadoo]

11 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

If I run a haulage company and I need workers and fewer folk have an HGV licence then I need to pay attractive wages to bring and retain people to my company.

If we have uncontrolled immigration and have a surplus of HGV drivers then pay and conditions stagnate or are reduced- because I can now take my pick and get drivers ten a penny. A race to the bottom ensues.

The same scenario is repeated across many semi skilled industries and people here lose out.

Having concerns about that is perfectly legitimate.

What about prices?

[THE KING]

On 6 September 2016 at 23:09, John Lambies Doos said:

 

Let's face it, this Tory Govt has no intent on pulling out of EU. It will go on and on and on until lie of land changes!

 

IT was always going to be a fukup, because Nobdy knows what exit will actually be.

[dorlomin]

14 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

If I run a haulage company and I need workers and fewer folk have an HGV licence then I need to pay attractive wages to bring and retain people to my company.

If we have uncontrolled immigration and have a surplus of HGV drivers then pay and conditions stagnate or are reduced- because I can now take my pick and get drivers ten a penny. A race to the bottom ensues.

The same scenario is repeated across many semi skilled industries and people here lose out.

Having concerns about that is perfectly legitimate.

You assume an economy and the labour markets are zero sum games. An increase in skilled and semi skilled people in the population increases demand for goods and services, they need to be satisfied by employing people to provide those goods and services. More over increasing the skill base of the economy by bringing in skilled or degree educated workers that we have not had to invest in their skills and education should increase the net productivity of the economy without having to outlay money for their educations. Broadening the range of skills in the economy such as languages will attract more diverse employers. There is no definitive "yes more people is good" or "no immigration is bad for the average worker", its a complex argument but on the whole societies that are open to immigration have prospered greatly over the past two centuries (US, Australia etc). The UKs employment rates are reasonably good even after the hysteria of "mass immigration." 

[DublinMagyar]

If I run a haulage company and I need workers and fewer folk have an HGV licence then I need to pay attractive wages to bring and retain people to my company.

If we have uncontrolled immigration and have a surplus of HGV drivers then pay and conditions stagnate or are reduced- because I can now take my pick and get drivers ten a penny. A race to the bottom ensues.

The same scenario is repeated across many semi skilled industries and people here lose out.

Having concerns about that is perfectly legitimate.

People born here here was you're original quote. Edited now you've realised how horribly bigoted, racist and utterly despicable it was. Nationalist , not the good kind. Also a fucking coward

[Ad Lib]

18 hours ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

If I run a haulage company and I need workers and fewer folk have an HGV licence then I need to pay attractive wages to bring and retain people to my company.

If we have uncontrolled immigration and have a surplus of HGV drivers then pay and conditions stagnate or are reduced- because I can now take my pick and get drivers ten a penny. A race to the bottom ensues.

The same scenario is repeated across many semi skilled industries and people here lose out.

Having concerns about that is perfectly legitimate.

Good. Haulage is too expensive. You should be hiring cheaper workers.

[EdgarusQPFC]

Farage still kisses his own arse over Brexit, he acts like it was his masterful plan and that we are already seeing the benefits. The clown never had a clue what he was talking about from day one and he has no right to continue to discuss it when he washed his hands of the mess he helped create. I never liked the idiot but when he immediately did a runner when the shit hit the fan he showed his true colours. Don't often wish death on a person but if he was to get hit by a bus tomorrow id honestly piss my pants laughing

[Sherrif John Bunnell]

11 minutes ago, The Chlamydia Kid said:

Do you think the lorry driver who can't get a shift calculates a national cost benefit analysis? No he votes like the overwhelming majority of people- what's important to his personal life.

The lorry driver is also probably a prostitute-murdering racist.

[DublinMagyar]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

And still a cowardly racist

[DublinMagyar]

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Do you deny your original quote said "people born here" ?

[The Chlamydia Kid]

Do you deny your original quote said "people born here" ?

[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

[McSpreader]

18 hours ago, Ya Bezzer! said:

The whole idea of a state representing a native people and its traditions is history.  Globalisation has knocked that for six and unless the entire world economy takes a completely different path as a result of some terrible disaster its not coming back.

It's one of those ironies that the very people who now decry immigration are the very people that put control of the economic markets into private hands.  It's the very same people that destroyed the British state through Thatcherism that now suddenly want to go backwards.  But what these people have failed to realise is that nationalism is subservient to the markets now.  Privatization and the dropping of controls means private profit, not the continuation of a nationalist state, is the be all and end all of government policy.

They destroyed, strip mined, cut to the bone the British state for their own greed, profiteering off stolen national assets, now the full consequences are apparently and its a different story and two generations of working class and lower middle class 'conservatives' want to go into full rewind mode back to a time before there own decisions destroyed the country.  This world that they seem to hate so much is a direct consequence of their own stupid, greedy, pocket lining.

Impact on communities? Your figurehead said there was no such thing as society.  Local services, stripped away by 40 years of right wing governments.  Lack of control, well who gave it away?  Big business and the wealthy, the trickle down didn't trickle down like the left said it wouldn't?

 

I can't argue with most of that although I'm not sure who my 'figurehead' is that you refer to. You're probably attributing values to me that I haven't stated that I subscribe to.

National governments are perfectly capable of mitigating the forces of globalisation yet not even the 10 years of Labour Government chose to do that, in fact they accelerated it and the EU has turbo-charged it and the USA has underwritten it so I'm not sure you are fully aware of how globalisation has come to dominate instead you just want to slag off good, honest  decent aspirational people who have a different political outlook to you, which is a shame.

 

 

 

[McSpreader]

19 hours ago, DublinMagyar said:

People born here lose out? But you're not a xenophobic racist nationalist? Like yes voters are called

Even if he did say 'people born here lose out' I'd love to know how that makes him a xenophobic, racist nationalist!

That's a hell of an extreme response or was there more because I couldn't be so judgemental on such a simple phrase?

[Ya Bezzer!]

11 minutes ago, McSpreader said:

I can't argue with most of that although I'm not sure who my 'figurehead' is that you refer to. You're probably attributing values to me that I haven't stated that I subscribe to.

National governments are perfectly capable of mitigating the forces of globalisation yet not even the 10 years of Labour Government chose to do that, in fact they accelerated it and the EU has turbo-charged it and the USA has underwritten it so I'm not sure you are fully aware of how globalisation has come to dominate instead you just want to slag off good, honest  decent aspirational people who have a different political outlook to you, which is a shame.

Labour Government in name only.  As you said they continued or accelerated virtually ever policy.

I am aware that globalisation is, well, global but it probably wouldn't have happened, at least to the extent that is has, without the policies of the Thatcher/Reagan governments in the late 1970's and 80's. Those were game changers.

As for the good, honest, decent, aspiration people - weren't they just greedy fools? I am to the left, I put my hand up to that, but I think the whole point about this, and now in the United States right now with Trump, is you have Conservative voters, voting for things that aren't Conservative in the slightest.  Wildly radical polices are being sold to a population under the misapprehension that they are 'conservative' and no one has seriously questioned it.