La Liga / Copa Del Rey Ole

[Theroadlesstravelled]

Greaseman’s attempted headed clearance at the first Cadiz goal is a thing of diddy league beauty.

[RandomGuy.]

*hot take klaxon*

Barca need Messi to leave. Too much of their set up/line up is built to support him. Young players in general seem to feel the need to put everything through him, with a few exceptions.

The old guard (Pique, Alba, Busquets) are all done and need taken out too.

Give as much game time as possible to Araujo, Puiq and Pedri etc.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

On 28/11/2020 at 21:34, JMDP said:

Alaves 2 up away to Real at the moment. Decent watch with Madrid looking atrocious at the back. Absolute howler from Courtois for the second.

Atletico take unbeaten league run to 25 earlier with 1-0 win away to Valencia. Only 2 goals conceded in 9 games so far and joint top of the league with games in hand. 

Villareal-Real Sociedad should be decent tomorrow. La Real are one of my favourite teams to watch at the moment. 

Aye fucked themselves against Bayern though, or they could have gone to the Bernabeu with a full week to rest and prepare. Now they have to play their strongest team against Leipzig, will probably lose and go out imo, and go to Real tired and on a downer.

I think after the quarter last year that Bayern game the other night was another black mark against Simeone.  He loves to go on about how his team have big balls and are men etc, well maybe he needs to find a pair then as he has instilled so much fear and negativity into his team it has cost them dear a few times. 

Bayern were absolutely there for the taking for fully 70 minutes, if they had shown the desire to be so Atleti could easily have been 3 up.  Then Bayern simply made two changes and within ten minutes were level.  

He has done a stunning job there, but they could achieve so much more if they showed a tiny bit of bravery and ambition at the right times, you get zero of eiehter from them ever and its very frustrating. Take Real next week, will never get a better time to play them, absolute shambles that are there for the taking.  Atleti going into it undefeated in 26, Real one win in four.  The title up for grabs. 

Atleti should go there like men possessed and go right for the jugular from the first second, but they will be cagey, stodgy, one paced, defensive, reactive and negative.  They should have been the same in pursuit of a second goal the other night and they'd be in a much better position now.  

[Salvo Montalbano]

Aye fucked themselves against Bayern though, or they could have gone to the Bernabeu with a full week to rest and prepare. Now they have to play their strongest team against Leipzig, will probably lose and go out imo, and go to Real tired and on a downer.
I think after the quarter last year that Bayern game the other night was another black mark against Simeone.  He loves to go on about how his team have big balls and are men etc, well maybe he needs to find a pair then as he has instilled so much fear and negativity into his team it has cost them dear a few times. 
Bayern were absolutely there for the taking for fully 70 minutes, if they had shown the desire to be so Atleti could easily have been 3 up.  Then Bayern simply made two changes and within ten minutes were level.  
He has done a stunning job there, but they could achieve so much more if they showed a tiny bit of bravery and ambition at the right times, you get zero of eiehter from them ever and its very frustrating. Take Real next week, will never get a better time to play them, absolute shambles that are there for the taking.  Atleti going into it undefeated in 26, Real one win in four.  The title up for grabs. 
Atleti should go there like men possessed and go right for the jugular from the first second, but they will be cagey, stodgy, one paced, defensive, reactive and negative.  They should have been the same in pursuit of a second goal the other night and they'd be in a much better position now.  

They don't play Leipzig, they play Red Bull Salzburg and only need a point to progress.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

17 minutes ago, Salvo Montalbano said:

2 hours ago, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

Aye fucked themselves against Bayern though, or they could have gone to the Bernabeu with a full week to rest and prepare. Now they have to play their strongest team against Leipzig, will probably lose and go out imo, and go to Real tired and on a downer.
I think after the quarter last year that Bayern game the other night was another black mark against Simeone.  He loves to go on about how his team have big balls and are men etc, well maybe he needs to find a pair then as he has instilled so much fear and negativity into his team it has cost them dear a few times. 
Bayern were absolutely there for the taking for fully 70 minutes, if they had shown the desire to be so Atleti could easily have been 3 up.  Then Bayern simply made two changes and within ten minutes were level.  
He has done a stunning job there, but they could achieve so much more if they showed a tiny bit of bravery and ambition at the right times, you get zero of eiehter from them ever and its very frustrating. Take Real next week, will never get a better time to play them, absolute shambles that are there for the taking.  Atleti going into it undefeated in 26, Real one win in four.  The title up for grabs. 
Atleti should go there like men possessed and go right for the jugular from the first second, but they will be cagey, stodgy, one paced, defensive, reactive and negative.  They should have been the same in pursuit of a second goal the other night and they'd be in a much better position now.  

They don't play Leipzig, they play Red Bull Salzburg and only need a point to progress.

Aye Leipzig, I know they need a point and I think they'll get beat.  If they had managed to beat Bayern, Bayern's second team with two 17 year olds making their professional debuts btw and a third off the bench, they wouldn't need anything next week and could have rested everybody.

Bayern were dire for 70 minutes, it was an absolute dawdle for Atleti, one up, no desire to get a second, Bayern bring on two senior players within ten minutes are level.  Same as the quarter last season Simeone's negativity cost them. 

On top of that they could have been going to Real next week with a full week to prepare and Real needing to play their strongest team midweek to try to qualify, giving them a massive advantage.  They have a stunning chance to win the title this season but small things like this can make all the difference.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

And its actually arrogant to think we're one up so will just shut up shop and hold out we don't concede many goals aye you don't play Bayern Munich very often either do you they're a wee bit better than Getafe and put four past you in Germany. 

They got what they deserved really, the arrogance to think you can just hold out against the reigning European champions got rightly punished, and it could ruin both their chances of progressing to the knockout rounds and their title chances.  If they lose it by a couple of points after losing next week that will be why.

I thought Simeone had learned a harsh lesson after the quarter last year, apparently not.  He has done an incredible job, 9/10, but he needs to learn they have to be bold and brave and aggressive at the right times.

[JMDP]

I don't really think you've watched them much this year. They're a much more expansive side this season with Trippier and Hermoso/Lodi playing much further up, Koke as the pivot and Llorente, Saul, Lemar, etc having much more opportunity to be attacking behind Felix, Suarez and Correa. 

The match against Bayern wasn't about not wanting a second, it was awful finishing and a poor challenge from Felipe that cost them. Also, their position is more down to the two Lokomotiv games where poor finishing cost them again. 

To suggest Simeone hasn't adapted is a bit of a cliche. True, they can be a rigid nightmare at times, but this season alone he has played 442, 352, 4132 and 4231 at points in games. Towards the end of the Huesca match it was almost a 244.

The main issue with last season wasn't the way he set them up - it was clearly a team in transition who had just lost Griezmann, Juanfran, Felipe Luis, Rodri, Godin and the new players needed time to bed in. It was also a stinker of a season for injuries.

You can clearly see that they are much more comfortable with how they are playing this year - Suarez has changed the dynamic up top, Koke is back to running the show in midfield, the defence is solid and Thomas Lemar is like a new signing. They might not win La Liga this year but if they don't, it won't be down to the coach being too defensive.

Edited December 6, 2020 by JMDP

[peasy23]

*hot take klaxon*
Barca need Messi to leave. Too much of their set up/line up is built to support him. Young players in general seem to feel the need to put everything through him, with a few exceptions.
The old guard (Pique, Alba, Busquets) are all done and need taken out too.
Give as much game time as possible to Araujo, Puiq and Pedri etc.

The old guard is the biggest problem at the moment, think some of them still want Pep as manager. Trouble for them is that even if he did come back (extremely unlikely imo), they couldn't play at the tempo he would want. Also, deep down Koeman knows he is probably only keeping the seat warm until a new President is elected, and the players know that too.

Defensively they are shambolic. Even at their peak they weren't the greatest, leading to some CL horrors, but they got away with it for the most part then because they were so good in possession that they were never under pressure for long. Now that they can't keep the ball at the other end of the park, the defence is getting shown up.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

22 hours ago, JMDP said:

I don't really think you've watched them much this year. They're a much more expansive side this season with Trippier and Hermoso/Lodi playing much further up, Koke as the pivot and Llorente, Saul, Lemar, etc having much more opportunity to be attacking behind Felix, Suarez and Correa. 

The match against Bayern wasn't about not wanting a second, it was awful finishing and a poor challenge from Felipe that cost them. Also, their position is more down to the two Lokomotiv games where poor finishing cost them again. 

To suggest Simeone hasn't adapted is a bit of a cliche. True, they can be a rigid nightmare at times, but this season alone he has played 442, 352, 4132 and 4231 at points in games. Towards the end of the Huesca match it was almost a 244.

The main issue with last season wasn't the way he set them up - it was clearly a team in transition who had just lost Griezmann, Juanfran, Felipe Luis, Rodri, Godin and the new players needed time to bed in. It was also a stinker of a season for injuries.

You can clearly see that they are much more comfortable with how they are playing this year - Suarez has changed the dynamic up top, Koke is back to running the show in midfield, the defence is solid and Thomas Lemar is like a new signing. They might not win La Liga this year but if they don't, it won't be down to the coach being too defensive.

I've watched about half their games.  All you've really done is list a few players, there's no indication how attacking that makes them.  I don't think the fullbacks are particularly higher up, and against Bayern they barely crossed the halfway line as they were obviously told not to.

It was about not wanting a second, they didn't press Bayern, they didn't commit bodies forward, there was no urgency, no pace to the team, not a single striker on the park as it happens either.

And it wasn't a bad challenge they got done, if he doesn't make the challenge Muller is scoring anyway as they cut them wide open with the minimum of effort the first time the two senior players they brought on touched the ball.

You mean the Lokomotiv game where they couldn't score at home?  There was no issue last season that hasn't been there every season Simeone has been in charge, I alluded to no issue last season.  They're just as defensive and negative this season as they were last season and the season before.  That's how he plays.  It cost them a CL semi last season, may well cost them a knockout place this and imo has fucked their title chances already.

What formation they play doesn't matter all formations can be very attacking or very defensive, its the negative mindset, the fear and lack of ambition he has bred into them that is the problem, not how he sets them up.  And you reframe the question anyway, I didn't say he hasn't adapted or doesn't play different formations, I said no matter what way they play its negative, defensive, reactive, one paced, slow, stodgy, cagey and boring and has cost them dear at times, and that continues to be the case. 

He loves to go on about big balls, well he could do with finding a pair for himself, as there isn't a team in Europe that plays with more fear and less ambition, and its a real shame as they are so close to achieving so much if they just had the courage to take a wee risk every now and then.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

I don't mean to be rude btw you're a top lad I just find Atleti so frustrating.  They have been so close to achieving so much for so long and often come up just short when if they showed the same amount of desire to score goals as they do to not concede them I think that could have got them over the line a few times.

Tbf I'm looking at the table, they have scored 21 in 10 this season, second highest.  In previous seasons they scored 55, 51 and 58 so averaging just over 2 per game just now and much less than 2 previous three seasons.  So maybe some truth in it.   

[JMDP]

Cheers brother, no offence taken. 

I get where you are coming from and he has definitely been guilty of this in the past - especially away from home. Last year away to Eibar, Real Sociedad and Valladolid were particularly horrific and the CL defeat to Juventus the year was probably the main example of all you spoke about. 

There does seem a real difference this season though and a reluctance to sit in as much. Hopefully he sets them out to attack on Saturday.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

1 hour ago, JMDP said:

Cheers brother, no offence taken. 

I get where you are coming from and he has definitely been guilty of this in the past - especially away from home. Last year away to Eibar, Real Sociedad and Valladolid were particularly horrific and the CL defeat to Juventus the year was probably the main example of all you spoke about. 

There does seem a real difference this season though and a reluctance to sit in as much. Hopefully he sets them out to attack on Saturday.

That's good to hear, I remember a lot of talk about that at the end of last season. They just have such a great opportunity this year, Barca are a shambles so basically finish above Real they win the title.  And its the sort of thing that happens once in a blue moon, you could be waiting twenty years for another chance as good as this.  

I fear for them against Salzburg though, dangerous side very dangerous game for them.  They will be all pace and zest and energy and throw the kitchen sink at Atleti with nothing to lose, a side that score a lot of goals. 

They have two massive away games this week, despite the above a bore draw at Real would be great but you'll never get a better chance to beat them and if they beat them the title's virtually theirs to lose, that would be 9 points and about 15 goals clear of Real with a game in hand.

[JMDP]

On 07/12/2020 at 17:30, Carnoustie Young Guvnor said:

That's good to hear, I remember a lot of talk about that at the end of last season. They just have such a great opportunity this year, Barca are a shambles so basically finish above Real they win the title.  And its the sort of thing that happens once in a blue moon, you could be waiting twenty years for another chance as good as this.  

I fear for them against Salzburg though, dangerous side very dangerous game for them.  They will be all pace and zest and energy and throw the kitchen sink at Atleti with nothing to lose, a side that score a lot of goals. 

They have two massive away games this week, despite the above a bore draw at Real would be great but you'll never get a better chance to beat them and if they beat them the title's virtually theirs to lose, that would be 9 points and about 15 goals clear of Real with a game in hand.

You were right about Salzburg, brother. Came flying out and first 20 minutes was a barrage. Atleti stood up well though and ground it out - the second goal was a lovely counter attacking move. A lot of rumours about Szoboszlai coming to Atleti in Jan (if he doesn't go to Leipzig) which would be a decent bit of business.

Hopefully Saturday brings a similar result. Anyway, here's a good article that sums up the changes to Atleti this season.

https://www.givemesport.com/1624526-carmichaels-column-evolution-of-cholismo-makes-atletico-madrid-firm-la-liga-favourites

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

16 minutes ago, JMDP said:

You were right about Salzburg, brother. Came flying out and first 20 minutes was a barrage. Atleti stood up well though and ground it out - the second goal was a lovely counter attacking move. A lot of rumours about Szoboszlai coming to Atleti in Jan (if he doesn't go to Leipzig) which would be a decent bit of business.

Hopefully Saturday brings a similar result. Anyway, here's a good article that sums up the changes to Atleti this season.

https://www.givemesport.com/1624526-carmichaels-column-evolution-of-cholismo-makes-atletico-madrid-firm-la-liga-favourites

Watched it, a classic Atleti performance, though could have been behind by the time they took the lead.  Clinical for the second goal too.  Hopefully they have enough in the tank for the weekend, what an opportunity it is.

That would be a good piece of business he looked class btw.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Good article, don't completely agree with them being favourites for the title, and don't agree they were particularly attacking against Bayern.  But learned quite a lot from it.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

This is it!!!   I take it all back hope they shitfest the f**k out of this.  Herrera in midfield good sign they plan to.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Actually trying to press them a bit so far this is good.  Are there fans there?  I can hear fan noise

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Starting to get pinned in a bit, game developing into the expected pattern.  Going to be a long night.  Wee bit lucky there too.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

That's a great save when you see it.  Probably the best keeper in the world.

[Carnoustie Young Guvnor]

Bollocks