Should Scotland & other countries boycott UEFA events over Champions League plans?

[Ross.]

11 minutes ago, sjc said:

Be interesting to hear from Davie Bhoy how many tickets Celtic should have got by his reasoning for the 1995 Scottish Cup Final given his Club was on its arse and attendances were averaging 16,000.....

I hate to back up Davie but the 94/95 season was the year after the McCann takeover and Celtic were playing at Hampden. The average crowd that year was around 25k a week.

In general, cup final allocations should be equal where possible and only unequal where one side has returned unsold tickets.

ETA: According to this link the average that season was 24601...

[Benjamin_Nevis]

1 hour ago, sjc said:

Be interesting to hear from Davie Bhoy how many tickets Celtic should have got by his reasoning for the 1995 Scottish Cup Final given his Club was on its arse and attendances were averaging 16,000.....

He's previously "fielded" this one. I understand the old board were deliberately under-rating attendances to trouser the extra cash, clearly evidenced by the fact that they got over 60,000+ for a game against Dundee in May 1988. Or something. 

[Davie Bhoy]

Be interesting to hear from Davie Bhoy how many tickets Celtic should have got by his reasoning for the 1995 Scottish Cup Final given his Club was on its arse and attendances were averaging 16,000.....

Given we were playing Airdrie then both our clubs average attendances should've been sorted out and then any remaining tickets should've been split. Given the capacity/attendance was 37,000 both clubs average attendances would've been covered easily. If memory serves me right, Airdrie got around about 7,000 tickets.

[AlbionMan]

On 16/08/2016 at 17:57, Davie Bhoy said:

 

I disagree. I think UEFA would then have to turn round to these clubs/countries and tell them the deal is off. The Champions League should only be for league winners. Fine they have changed it to add more glamour, but they are still not happy and are now taking the proverbial. It's gone way too far in their favour now and very soon clubs from smaller countries will no longer feature in the CL. This will have a knock on effect to clubs currently playing in the EL.
 

 

In some ways it is difficult not to have a guilty frisson of pleasure at seeing the ugly sisters having done to them as they have been doing to the rest of Scottish football for years.

[HibeeJibee]

EPFL - to domestic leagues what UEFA is to domestic FAs, but obviously much younger and weaker and without tournaments of its own - has rejected UEFA's proposals as elitist.

They're threatening to rip-up the "Memorandum of Understanding" they have with UEFA.

That document is the basis of the "UEFA Embargo" that prevents leagues scheduling matchdays or televising rearranged games on CL/EL nights.

[FairWeatherFan]

EPFL - This is too much, we're not having this!

La Liga - This doesn't go far enough. We've got interest from China. Who needs UEFA

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/sep/09/la-liga-president-champions-league-breakaway

What fun

 

[HibeeJibee]

Something doesn't add-up there. If he's right, and it would lead to Spain overtaking England in terms of spending power, why would the English join it?

If the English didn't join it, how likely would it be to achieve the revenues claimed, given it would be lacking some of the strongest and highest-profile clubs?

Having continental competition 'run' by the Dalian Wanda Group also sounds rather like F1 being 'licensed' to Ecclestone. Presumably a lot of money to be made by certain people, and some clubs, but surely undesirable in many other respects.

[Faddy88]

A guy on Bert Kassies forum appears to be an ITK for some of the changes and shared a couple of documents with Bert and it looks like the changes will end up like this:

UEFA CHAMPIONS LEAGUE 2018/21 – ACCESS LIST FOR QUALIFICATION ROUNDS

CHAMPIONS PATH: 

Preliminary Rounds (PR): 4 starters (52-55), two PR, for 1 place in CQ1
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 52. Gibraltar, 53. Andorra, 54. San Marino, 55. Kosovo.

CQ1: 33 starters (18-51, without Liechtenstein) + 1 winner from PR = 34 teams
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 18. Denmark, 19. Belarus, 20. Sweden, 21. Poland, 22. Norway, 23. Scotland, 24. Israel, 25. Azerbaidjan, 26. Cyprus, 27. Serbia, 28. Bulgaria, 29. Kazakhstan, 30. Slovenia, 31.Slovakia, 33. Hungary, 34. Moldova, 35..Iceland, 36. Finland, 37. Albania, 38. Bosnia, 39. Georgia, 40. Latvija, 41. Ireland, 42. Macedonia, 43. Estonia, 44. Montenegro, 45. Armenia, 46. Luxembourg, 47. Nothern Ireland, 48. Lithuania, 49. Malta, 50. Wales, 51. Faroe Islands

CQ2: 3 starters (15-17) + 17 winners from CQ1 = 20 teams 
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 15. Netherlands, 16. Romania, 17. Austria.

CQ3: 2 starters (13-14) + 10 winners from CQ2 = 12 teams 
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 13. Croatia, 14. Greece.

CQ4 (play off): 2 starters (11-12) + 6 winners from CQ3 = 8 teams 
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 11. Czech Republik, 12. Switzerland.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

NON CHAMPIONS PATH – Option 1:

NCQ3: 8 starters (3rd 5, 3rd 6, runner up 7-12) 
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 5. France (3rd), 6. Russia (3rd), 7. Portugal, 8. Ukraine, 9. Belgium, 10. Turkey, 11. Czech Rep, 12. Switzerland. 

NCQ4 (play off): 4 winners from NCQ3

UEFA Europa League: CW 13-15 directly in a GS!

---------------------------------------------------

NON CHAMPIONS PATH – Option 2:

NCQ2: 6 starters (runner up 10-15) 
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 10. Turkey, 11. Czech Rep, 12. Switzerland, 13. Croatia, 14. Greece, 15. Netherlands

NCQ3: 5 starters (3rd 5, 3rd 6, runner up 7-9) + 3 winners from NCQ2 = 8 teams 
Starters 2018/19, at the moment: 5. France (3rd), 6. Russia (3rd), 7. Portugal, 8. Ukraine, 9. Belgium.

NCQ4 (play off): 4 winners from NCQ3

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Whitch option for NCQ will be taken, it will be decided in the next 2-3 months - by the Club Competition Commitee Working Group. 

If one spot in a GS would be free (because of title holder UCL / UEL in the previous season 2017/18), champions of 11 (Czech Rep. at the moment) and 12 (Switzerland at the moment) would not start in play offs – they would go directly to the GS. Therefore we would have 27 teams directly qualified for the GS, 3 teams gualified through CQ and 2 teams qualified through NCQ.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------

UEFA EUROPA LEAGUE 2018/21 – ACCESS LIST FOR QUALIFICATION ROUNDS

Complete access list will be determined in the next 2-3 months - by the Club Competition Commitee Working Group. 

Directly in the GS for sure: 

5th 1-4 
CW 1-12
looser PO CQ (4 teams) 
looser Q3 & PO NCQ (4 + 2 = 6 teams) 

Optionaly also CW 13-15 (if by NCQ option 1 "winns")

 

NEW CLUB COEFFICIENTS CALCULATION STARTING FROM 2018: 

PERFORMANCE previous 10 seasons
2 points for win, 1 point for draw 

BONUS previous 10 seasons
UCL: 4 points for GS, 5 points for R16 
UCL/UEL: 1 point for KO as of QF 

TITELS:
Last 5 seasons: UCL 15 (or 12, will be decided in next months), UEL 3 
As of 1992/93: UCL 10 (or 8, will be decided in next months), UEL 2 
Before 1992/93: UCL 5 (or 4, will be decided in next months), UEL 1

 

So, if that's how it will be, Scottish champions(Celtic) will have to get through 4 qualifying rounds to reach the CL group stage, meaning a probable start of season of early July.  Europa League changes haven't been finalized yet so no idea if they'd drop down if they lost any of those qualifying rounds.  Non-champions path also being finalized between a couple of options.  Option 1 would mean we'd need to be ranked 12th to get a 2nd CL spot again so if that gets chosen, doubt we'll get it back for a long, long time, if ever.
 

[HibeeJibee]

It would mean the Scottish Champion starting QR1 instead of QR2... at the end of June or start of July, instead of halfway through July.


However, there are 2 utterly unnecessary aspects:

(1) having cut the Champions Pathway from 5 slots to 4 and dropped the 11th & 12th ranked countries into that Pathway, they're letting 11th & 12th enter in QR4; 13th & 14th in QR3; and 15th-17th in QR2... This forces all the other champions into QR1! And they are making the four lowest champions play two rounds of preliminaries, just to make it into QR1! They should make the top champions in the pathway enter earlier to shorten everything.

(2) if the titleholder slots go unused they are just giving them to 11th & 12th... They should give them to the Champions Pathway so fewer clubs have to enter in QR1 and create more opportunities to reach Groupstages.

We knew they were going to cut the Non-Champions Pathway from 5 slots to just 2: the two options seems to be whether 13-15th should stop getting runners-up in the tournament or not.

[HibeeJibee]

Reading more over on Bert Kassies... all champions will drop into EL which will have its own Champion and Non-Champion pathways. More slots directly in the EL groupstage will go to cup winners (countries down to 15th instead of 12th) and the 5th-placed clubs from England, Italy, Spain and Germany.

Will mean slight reduction in places for EL qualifying rounds.


Times has reported "historical titles" coefficient bonus:
* CL winner in last 5 years - 15pts
* CL winner since inception - 10pts
* European Cup winner - 5pts

There will also be coefficient bonuses for EL and UEFA Cup titles. Although it stood above the UEFA Cup, it seems uncertain if the Cup-Winners' Cup will be recognised.

Apparently prizemoney will also be paid for coefficients. Someone is estimating that Real Madrid could increase their coefficient by 50%.

[vikingTON]

No wonder nobody wants dross like Celtic polluting the tournament.

[LordHawHaw]

I'd say aye if we can backdate it

[Vollyman]

SPL teams have lost to teams from Gibralter, Malta and Luxembourg and our champions are beaten 7-0 we are the Mickey Mouse league in Europe maybe we should boycott Europe to save further embarrassment.

[CityDave]

1 hour ago, Vollyman said:

SPL teams have lost to teams from Gibralter, Malta and Luxembourg and our champions are beaten 7-0 we are the Mickey Mouse league in Europe maybe we should boycott Europe to save further embarrassment.

You mean like throwing the toys out of the pram?

[Vollyman]

4 hours ago, CityDave said:

You mean like throwing the toys out of the pram?

Maybe could introduce a Europa Mickey Mouse league

[TheGoon]

I would aak how nations of simillar populations are doing in Europe. Some seem to think because we have Rangers & Celtic (who are not as big as they'd like you to believe) that we should have someone in the Last 16 of the CL, which is ludicrous. The real issue lies with the Europa League, and teams from Slovenia, Slvakia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Belarus etc all regularly making the group stage without dropping out the CL - whilst Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Motherwell etc get nowhere near. That is a problem, Celtic getting fisted like every other 4th seed isn't really.

[CityDave]

43 minutes ago, Vollyman said:

Maybe could introduce a Europa Mickey Mouse league

Yep, toys out of the pram.

 

[Faddy88]

1 hour ago, TheGoon said:

The real issue lies with the Europa League, and teams from Slovenia, Slvakia, Croatia, Czech Republic, Belarus etc all regularly making the group stage without dropping out the CL.

That's only really true of Czech Republic.  This year there's no teams from Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia or Belarus in the EL group stages, last year only had Dinamo Minsk from all those countries and they won 1 and lost 5.

[TheGoon]

Just now, Faddy88 said:

That's only really true of Czech Republic.  This year there's no teams from Slovenia, Slovakia, Croatia or Belarus in the EL group stages, last year only had Dinamo Minsk from all those countries and they won 1 and lost 5.

I stand corrected. I could've sworn Spartak Trnava & Maribor were involved last year as well 

[Vollyman]

1 hour ago, CityDave said:

Yep, toys out of the pram.

 

No it is not toys out of the pram you cannot escape the facts our teams other than Celtic are always out of Europe before the end of August because our league is full of second rate players. The money being poured into English football by the tv companies have killed Scottish football  because our clubs cannot meet the wage demands of quality players