Heads Gone (The 8MileBU Awards)

[carpetmonster]

Maybe this should go here, rather than the Have I Got Local News thread

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/edinburgh-swan-litter-police-scotland-22144044

[Guest JTS98]

9 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

I’d like to read this research as well - I’ve already asked for JTS to provide it and he has yet to do so sadly. 

It's perhaps one of the most disingenuous posting techniques of all to pretend to be incapable of finding things that are freely available.

Your position seems to be that you see no reason to object to bullying until someone puts evidence in front of your nose that it is bad.

That's your call.

[Marshmallo]

4 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

It's after midnight and I'm going to bed soon rather than Googling this all for you.

But Reddit did research into downvoting on their platform that found it lowered self-esteem and also had an impact of the downvoted person's view of other people and on the quality of their future output.

A university I designed courses for in Singapore removed the down-vote from their campus-wide social media because their own internal study found it increased stress and made people feel less valuable. That's going to be featured in a paper on campus-based social media that will be out sometime this year. I got my first academic reference in that one, so I'm very pleased with it.

Facebook tested downvoting a year or two ago and then stepped away from it. I believe permanently, but I don't use Facebook so cannot confirm. But I know the findings from that form part of the paper mentioned above. They dropped it for the same reasons. It was found to have a negative impact on people and they feared it would cost them users or reputational damage. There's a lot online about that.

To be honest, I think a lot of this is quite obvious stuff. What would your common sense tell you might be someone's reaction to day after day being 'dotted' by a community of strangers who all seem to agree that you're a dick. What do you think that might do to someone? It's not exactly a tricky thing to get your head around.

Thanks, I will have a look into this stuff. Reddit in particular was the first place I thought of with Downvoting and the fact it hides posts. Different from here in that it seems even more faceless given the nature and display of the site.

Another forum I post on infrequently had both positive and negative rep points and removed the negatives a couple of years ago.

[Bairnardo]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

I've had a near supernatural ability to avoid punching anyone since I left school, where I broke my fist on somebody without leaving a mark. Been in lots of potentially very violent situations, some where I've intervened to stop bad things happening, but I get a roughly 2 minute period of absolute confidence and a very loud gob before my legs start shaking. That's always luckily been enough to calm things down, or at least create enough confusion to leg it.

I once got into a situation on Sauchiehall St where I had to intervene to prevent my pal getting a real bleaching. I landed a couple of shots then got leathered, and once on the deck with the shoeing imminent, I shouted RIGHTT THAT'S FUCKING ENOUGH! as loud as I could. 

Bizarrely the winners elect of that fight all shat it giving me enough time to scrape up my pal and scram. 

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Marshmallo said:

Thanks, I will have a look into this stuff. Reddit in particular was the first place I thought of with Downvoting and the fact it hides posts. Different from here in that it seems even more faceless given the nature and display of the site.

Another forum I post on infrequently had both positive and negative rep points and removed the negatives a couple of years ago.

I think this is the only internet forum I've ever used regularly that has downvotes.

I'm looking forward to the publication of the paper because I've only read the section that I contributed to, but I think the main thrust of the university's decision was a worry about legal action should a student commit suicide having had lots of downvotes, since their own research had shown it put a strain on mental wellbeing.

It should be said that the findings were exactly what they expected to find when they started the research. The social media team at the university thought (rightly, I think) that downvotes were good for traffic and helped them look good. So they fought against having them removed. It became a research project and then it was case closed.

[carpetmonster]

4 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

Thanks, I will have a look into this stuff. Reddit in particular was the first place I thought of with Downvoting and the fact it hides posts. Different from here in that it seems even more faceless given the nature and display of the site.

Another forum I post on infrequently had both positive and negative rep points and removed the negatives a couple of years ago.

Reddit is a cesspool of American white milennial male arseholes. 

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

1 minute ago, JTS98 said:

It's perhaps one of the most disingenuous posting techniques of all to pretend to be incapable of finding things that are freely available.

Your position seems to be that you see no reason to object to bullying until someone puts evidence in front of your nose that it is bad.

That's your call.

Nah the onus is on you to back up your claim bud, not me. I’m not sure I view Facebook or a university social media site as overly comparable situations to Pie and Bovril but I’ll look for the Reddit study. 

And no, my position is that I don’t view red dots on a forum as bullying. I also think that if bennett views it as such to the point where it is affecting his mental health then he should probably just not log into the forum - it is a completely voluntary act. Or he could take it on the chin and improve the quality of his postings. 

 

[Marshmallo]

3 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I think this is the only internet forum I've ever used regularly that has downvotes.

I'm looking forward to the publication of the paper because I've only read the section that I contributed to, but I think the main thrust of the university's decision was a worry about legal action should a student commit suicide having had lots of downvotes, since their own research had shown it put a strain on mental wellbeing.

It should be said that the findings were exactly what they expected to find when they started the research. The social media team at the university thought (rightly, I think) that downvotes were good for traffic and helped them look good. So they fought against having them removed. It became a research project and then it was case closed.

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/data-mining-reveals-how-the-down-vote-leads-to-a-vicious-circle-of-negative-feedback-aad9d49da238

Found that quite interesting. The conclusion seems to be it creates a negative environment but encourages those downvoted to post more, not less. That was just the first study I found right enough.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Nah the onus is on you to back up your claim bud, not me. I’m not sure I view Facebook or a university social media site as overly comparable situations to Pie and Bovril but I’ll look for the Reddit study. 

And no, my position is that I don’t view red dots on a forum as bullying. I also think that if bennett views it as such to the point where it is affecting his mental health then he should probably just not log into the forum - it is a completely voluntary act. Or he could take it on the chin and improve the quality of his postings. 

 

I'm at a loss as to why you think there'd be much difference. A red dot is someone telling you that they think you're wrong/bad/a p***k/whatever. That happening all the time is bad for the soul.

I don't see why you find that hard to get your head around.

Up to you. There's no 'onus' on me to make you respect other people.

[Miguel Sanchez]

I'd like to know if @Disabled Colin has any advice on a poster's posts attracting regular implied dot-based criticism.

[welshbairn]

My attitude is that red dots are usually a cowardly or lazy way of disagreeing with someone. Not sure if somebody getting hundreds of post saying they're talking rubbish would have less of an impact on them than red dots or down votes.

P.S. I realise that the dotting community regard it differently, and dots rarely reflect content, more a nimbleness around the member search functions.

Edited June 5, 2020 by welshbairn

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, Marshmallo said:

https://medium.com/the-physics-arxiv-blog/data-mining-reveals-how-the-down-vote-leads-to-a-vicious-circle-of-negative-feedback-aad9d49da238

Found that quite interesting. The conclusion seems to be it creates a negative environment but encourages those downvoted to post more, not less. That was just the first study I found right enough.

Yeah, I've seen that one before.

"The result is a vicious spiral of increasingly negative behaviour that is exactly the opposite of the intended effect."

This is exactly the point.

[Marshmallo]

Just now, JTS98 said:

Yeah, I've seen that one before.

"The result is a vicious spiral of increasingly negative behaviour that is exactly the opposite of the intended effect."

This is exactly the point.

[Guest JTS98]

1 minute ago, welshbairn said:

My attitude is that red dots are usually a cowardly or lazy way of disagreeing with someone. Not sure if somebody getting hundreds of post saying they're talking rubbish would have less of an impact on them than red dots or down votes.

I think there's a difference.

A load of people replying saying 'You're a dick' would be akin to the red dot experience.

But I think people just disagreeing, even if saying you're talking rubbish, is different. That's a level of engagement that affords the other person respect and gives them a hearing.

Downvoting just says the other person is bad with no right of reply. There's a hit and run element to it.

I agree with you on the cowardly/lazy point.

[Bairnardo]

Yeah, I've seen that one before.
"The result is a vicious spiral of increasingly negative behaviour that is exactly the opposite of the intended effect."
This is exactly the point.

It's almost like looking a bit deeper into it than "well just log off" might yield some wisdom

[Bonksy+HisChristianParade]

3 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

I'm at a loss as to why you think there'd be much difference. 

Oh, I’m sorry. You clearly just aren’t capable of understanding then.

[Guest JTS98]

2 minutes ago, Bonksy+HisChristianParade said:

Oh, I’m sorry. You clearly just aren’t capable of understanding then.

Why did you edit out the next part of my post where I explained what I thought?

 

[Shandon Par]

19 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

It's after midnight and I'm going to bed soon rather than Googling this all for you.

But Reddit did research into downvoting on their platform that found it lowered self-esteem and also had an impact of the downvoted person's view of other people and on the quality of their future output.

A university I designed courses for in Singapore removed the down-vote from their campus-wide social media because their own internal study found it increased stress and made people feel less valuable. That's going to be featured in a paper on campus-based social media that will be out sometime this year. I got my first academic reference in that one, so I'm very pleased with it.

Facebook tested downvoting a year or two ago and then stepped away from it. I believe permanently, but I don't use Facebook so cannot confirm. But I know the findings from that form part of the paper mentioned above. They dropped it for the same reasons. It was found to have a negative impact on people and they feared it would cost them users or reputational damage. There's a lot online about that.

To be honest, I think a lot of this is quite obvious stuff. What would your common sense tell you might be someone's reaction to day after day being 'dotted' by a community of strangers who all seem to agree that you're a dick. What do you think that might do to someone? It's not exactly a tricky thing to get your head around.

Coz this is Thriller!

[welshbairn]

If we work in shifts JTS98 will not be sleeping tonight. I've seen the Hearts threads.

Edited June 5, 2020 by welshbairn

[Guest JTS98]

3 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

5 minutes ago, JTS98 said:

Yeah, I've seen that one before.
"The result is a vicious spiral of increasingly negative behaviour that is exactly the opposite of the intended effect."
This is exactly the point.

It's almost like looking a bit deeper into it than "well just log off" might yield some wisdom

Well, yes.

People seem to be surprised that they get red dotted by a person who gets red dotted by loads of other people.

This is an entirely predictable consequence. And the spiral works because they all keep red-dotting him etc etc.