SPFL split . . . Is it time to revert back to a traditional league format?

[Im_Rodger]

The Premiership is fine as it is. Only changes to the league would be to tweak the Play Offs. By that I mean scrap 4th place qualification from the Championship all together.

Then:-

3rd VS 2nd

2nd VS 3rd

Winner VS 11th At Neutral Venue 

All other Play Off finals at neutral venues as well. 

[HibeeJibee]

Falkirk have called for all rounds to be made one-off matches at neutral venues. However, their assertion that:

Quote

http://www.falkirkfc.co.uk/club-statement-spfl-play-off-structure/

A single game with extra time and penalties at a neutral venue would attract a crowd, in most cases, which would be greater than the sum of the attendances in a two leg play-off. 

This year, for instance, the Falkirk v Hibs [Playoff Semi-Final] game drew 11,000 at Easter Road and 8,000 at Falkirk.  If the game had been played at a neutral venue (like Hampden) on a one-off tie then, in most years, the attendance would be at least 30,000. 

seems pretty optimistic - particularly when confirmed at 1 week's notice - and that, together with reducing TV games and what neutral venue to choose, are potential issues.


Since the playoffs began you'd have been talking:

QotS v Falkirk / Falkirk v QotS ... 1,996 / 4,427 = 6,423
Falkirk v Hamilton / Hamilton v Falkirk ... 4,194 / 4,678 = 8,872
Hamilton v Hibs / Hibs v Hamilton ... 5,322 / 18,031 = 23,353

QotS v Rangers / Rangers v QotS ... 5,244 / 48,035 = 53,279
Rangers v Hibs / Hibs v Rangers ... 41,236 / 14,742 = 55,978
Rangers v Motherwell / Motherwell v Rangers ... 49,200 / 9,220 = 58,420

Raith v Hibs / Hibs v Raith ... 5,330 / 11,133 = 16,463
Hibs v Falkirk / Falkirk v Hibs ... 11,830 / 7,851 = 19,681
Falkirk v Kilmarnock / Kilmarnock v Falkirk ... 7,636 / 11,013 = 18,649

Apart from the opening games in 2013-14 you'd be talking Hampden but you've got the Scottish Cup Final at the same time.

[Monkey Tennis]

There's probably a decent case for making the final a one-off neutral game, but not the earlier ties.

In most cases, a smaller venue than Hampden would do fine.  I can't see Rangers featuring again and there's a good chance that Hibs won't either.  I suppose though that fixing a suitable venue at a few days' notice might be a challenge.

[forever_blue]

13 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

Falkirk have called for all rounds to be made one-off matches at neutral venues. However, their assertion that:

seems pretty optimistic - particularly when confirmed at 1 week's notice - and that, together with reducing TV games and what neutral venue to choose, are potential issues.


Since the playoffs began you'd have been talking:

QotS v Falkirk / Falkirk v QotS ... 1,996 / 4,427 = 6,423
Falkirk v Hamilton / Hamilton v Falkirk ... 4,194 / 4,678 = 8,872
Hamilton v Hibs / Hibs v Hamilton ... 5,322 / 18,031 = 23,353

QotS v Rangers / Rangers v QotS ... 5,244 / 48,035 = 53,279
Rangers v Hibs / Hibs v Rangers ... 41,236 / 14,742 = 55,978
Rangers v Motherwell / Motherwell v Rangers ... 49,200 / 9,220 = 58,420

Raith v Hibs / Hibs v Raith ... 5,330 / 11,133 = 16,463
Hibs v Falkirk / Falkirk v Hibs ... 11,830 / 7,851 = 19,681
Falkirk v Kilmarnock / Kilmarnock v Falkirk ... 7,636 / 11,013 = 18,649

Apart from the opening games in 2013-14 you'd be talking Hampden but you've got the Scottish Cup Final at the same time.

You probably won't get us or Hibs in a play off again in all reality unless Hibs have a minter this year but I agree the play off being a one off final is a good shout , pittodrie , tynecastle or Easter road would provide suitable neutral venues and attendances 

[Dons_1988]

Agreed  on one off game for final, much better idea.

Don't think it's that crazy to suggest Hibs might be in it though, United shouldn't be written off for the league just yet.

[Gaz FFC]

On Saturday, July 30, 2016 at 10:58, craigkillie said:

If the English Premiership jumped off the bridge would we do that too?

About 10 years later we would.

[forever_blue]

1 hour ago, Dons_1988 said:

Agreed  on one off game for final, much better idea.

Don't think it's that crazy to suggest Hibs might be in it though, United shouldn't be written off for the league just yet.

Of course they are in with a very good chance , I would just tip Hibs as slight favourites , in saying that United would also be capable of pulling a decent crowd for a one off final 

[Dons_1988]

2 minutes ago, forever_blue said:

Of course they are in with a very good chance , I would just tip Hibs as slight favourites , in saying that United would also be capable of pulling a decent crowd for a one off final 

Also see Hibs as slight favourites but wouldn't say Hibs ending up in the playoffs would be a 'minter'.

For many years United have been a better side.

[forever_blue]

1 minute ago, Dons_1988 said:

Also see Hibs as slight favourites but wouldn't say Hibs ending up in the playoffs would be a 'minter'.

For many years United have been a better side.

You are probably right when I think it through properly , it would maybe be considered a minter if utd were to run away with it easily but I doubt that would be the case , how have Falkirk fared in the summer transfer window because if they have managed to keep most of last seasons squad and made any good signings I would not rule them out either 

[bennett]

2 hours ago, Dons_1988 said:

Also see Hibs as slight favourites but wouldn't say Hibs ending up in the playoffs would be a 'minter'.

For many years United have been a better side.

Hibs under Leonard will start off well/fired up, united seem to have improved under McKinnon, at mirren picked up towards the end of last season under Rae and Falkirk deserved their second place. 

Don't like saying this but I'd have united as favourites, I think that they've got the right manager to get them up.

 

[The Grass Is Greener.]

On 1 August 2016 at 08:03, craigkillie said:

The lower leagues are even better for getting diddier teams excited about winning pointless tinpot trophies.

 

The Scottish Cup isn't a timpot trophy.

[hellbhoy]

9 minutes ago, The Grass Is Greener. said:

 

The Scottish Cup isn't a timpot trophy.

It's for gloating and goading the losers.

[TheScarf]

18 hours ago, Im_Rodger said:

The Premiership is fine as it is. Only changes to the league would be to tweak the Play Offs. By that I mean scrap 4th place qualification from the Championship all together.

 

Yep, 4th is far too lowly a placing to be considered for promotion in a 10 team league.

[Rugster]

3 minutes ago, TheScarf said:

Yep, 4th is far too lowly a placing to be considered for promotion in a 10 team league.

Absolutely. It should be 11th in Prem v 2nd in Championship. One off match. Simple.

[hellbhoy]

Just now, TheScarf said:

Yep, 4th is far too lowly a placing to be considered for promotion in a 10 team league.

I'd only make 3rd place a place off position if 3rd place managed to finish within a set points gap to 2nd position, say something like within 2 games or a 5 point gap. 3rd place only opens up that play off position because it was running second place close enough to consider it worthy of a play off, I think it's darn stupid to have play offs to 3rd position when 3rd place is as as much as 10 points or more adrift to 2nd position. It gives 3rd place something to fight for.

[bennett]

10 minutes ago, Rugster said:

Absolutely. It should be 11th in Prem v 2nd in Championship. One off match. Simple.

Whit Ruggy said, the present routine is set up in favour of the top league team.

 

 

[hellbhoy]

3 minutes ago, bennett said:

Whit Ruggy said, the present routine is set up in favour of the top league team.

 

 

Aye Benny, that's how Hibs went down a division. It favoured them to pair up with Hearts on the way down.

[Swello]

Just now, bennett said:

Whit Ruggy said, the present routine is set up in favour of the top league team.

 

 

It totally is (and Motherwell benefitted from it. Well that and the fact Rangers were hilariously bad) - but the important thing was to get the playoffs accepted as a principle and the only way to get that through the voting system was to appease the top tier clubs. In a couple of years (if we're not there already) when playoffs are well established and not politically possible to get rid of - then's the time to review the format. I'd be happy with anything that meant there was no advantage for the Premier team as by finishing 11th, they've done nothing to deserve one.

[TheScarf]

17 minutes ago, hellbhoy said:

I'd only make 3rd place a place off position if 3rd place managed to finish within a set points gap to 2nd position, say something like within 2 games or a 5 point gap. 3rd place only opens up that play off position because it was running second place close enough to consider it worthy of a play off, I think it's darn stupid to have play offs to 3rd position when 3rd place is as as much as 10 points or more adrift to 2nd position. It gives 3rd place something to fight for.

I like the concept.  For example if United finish 2nd on 70 point next season, say 2 points behind Hibs, and Falkirk finish 3rd on 59, surely Falkirk haven't been good enough to deserve a crack at playing in the Premiership? 

Edit - The current set-up kind of rewards an average season.

[hellbhoy]

Just now, TheScarf said:

I like the concept.  For example if United finish 2nd on 70 point next season, say 2 points behind Hibs, and Falkirk finish 3rd on 59, surely Falkirk haven't been good enough to deserve a crack at playing in the Premiership? 

I feel the associations are giving chances to clubs that have not been good enough to merit a play off position of late. It may suit the club in 4th position but they could be as far off as 20 points or so from the club above them???

I'd even include a 4th play off position only as long as the club finished within that points difference to 2nd, I'd feel that would merit opening up an extra leg but only over a one legged tie with the club above taking home advantage.