Next UK Labour Leader - post Brexit

[jmothecat]

Can't stand David Miliband, but any Labour Leader who didn't spend his entire period in charge allowing the Tories to blame Labour for the global recession would probably have done a better job. I can't see someone like David Miliband being the man to turn the tide against this bizarre, racism-driven, "anti-Establishment" backlash that is fucking the left the World over though.

I find it interesting that Corbyn (someone notoriously rebellious) seems more ready to defend the record of the last Labour government than Miliband did.

[DrewDon]

4 hours ago, jmothecat said:

 

I don't know anyone who is seriously entertaining the notion of David Miliband being the next Labour leader. I don't think your analysis is particularly accurate, Ed Miliband had almost all the left-wing press (Guardian, New Statesmen etc) endorsing him and the support of the unions. David Miliband had a better analysis of Labour's problems and a better understanding of the electorate at large than Miliband the younger. It's impossible to say whether David would have done any better in the 2015 election than Ed did, but Ed was a terrible leader. In comparison with Corbyn he may look good, but he was awful and I definitely think the wrong Miliband won that election.

 

Ed didn't have an endorsement from The Guardian, as far as I can recall; they didn't endorse any candidate, but The Observer backed David. The New Statesman was, I think, the only one backing Ed; the Daily Mirror definitely backed David and a couple of others did, too. Ed hardly had "almost all the left-wing press", anyway. Ed would very likely not have won without the endorsements of Unite and Unison, granted, but the unions and affiliates only constituted one-third of the electoral college. There was nothing to stop David from competing for Unite and Unison members' votes, either, just because they had endorsed his brother. David also had USDAW and one or two of the smaller unions. Probably worth remembering that Ed would have won more convincingly under OMOV than he did under the electoral college, too. All David had to do to win under the old system was get a handful more first or second preferences from MPs, or strike a deal with Balls or Burnham, but he failed to do either. 

Ed was a poor leader, granted, but I'm not sure what that says about David if he failed to beat him in 2010. David would likely have lost in 2015, although maybe less heavily and for some different reasons to Ed. He was just never that good, really. 

[BerwickMad]

There's pretty much zero chance of Labour winning the next general election. A candidate who can stop the rot and can simply understand the electorate is needed. A bit of opposition as opposed to protest would help too. Unfortunately there's barely anybody in the party to look towards as that candidate at the moment.

Chucka Umunna probably has the best grip on what's needed, but he's damaged by his own pulling out of the leadership race in 2015. Dan Jarvis gets mentioned, but he doesn't seem to have much about him from what I've seen. Clive Lewis is suggested from the left, but he was a bit Andy Burnham in fence sitting for a bit, and then all over the place since he left the shadow cabinet.

[zidane's child]

33 minutes ago, BerwickMad said:

There's pretty much zero chance of Labour winning the next general election. A candidate who can stop the rot and can simply understand the electorate is needed. A bit of opposition as opposed to protest would help too. Unfortunately there's barely anybody in the party to look towards as that candidate at the moment.

Chucka Umunna probably has the best grip on what's needed, but he's damaged by his own pulling out of the leadership race in 2015. Dan Jarvis gets mentioned, but he doesn't seem to have much about him from what I've seen. Clive Lewis is suggested from the left, but he was a bit Andy Burnham in fence sitting for a bit, and then all over the place since he left the shadow cabinet.

As you said, there's nobody else. Bizarrely, if there was to be a third leadership election tomorrow, I'd still vote Corbyn. I think he is the best option at the moment and I agree with his views on the NHS, social care and tax avoidance of big firms.

What might help him is the Tories potentially f***ing up the Brexit negotiations and even then he has to hit them hard and not give them an inch. You might see a swing in the polls but I appreciate this is a big 'what if' scenario.

[Fide]

5 hours ago, BerwickMad said:

There's pretty much zero chance of Labour winning the next general election.

In other news, the Pope is catholic and bears shite amongst trees.

Well done, glad you've learned what we all knew a year ago.

[jmothecat]

As you said, there's nobody else. Bizarrely, if there was to be a third leadership election tomorrow, I'd still vote Corbyn. I think he is the best option at the moment and I agree with his views on the NHS, social care and tax avoidance of big firms.
What might help him is the Tories potentially f***ing up the Brexit negotiations and even then he has to hit them hard and not give them an inch. You might see a swing in the polls but I appreciate this is a big 'what if' scenario.

Corbyn won't land any punches on Brexit as he has gone against what most Labour voters voted for and is now backing Brexit. It's a farce.

[Fide]

Just now, jmothecat said:

 

Corbyn won't land any punches on Brexit as he has gone against what most Labour voters voted for and is now backing Brexit. It's a farce.

The worst of it is (for you Labour voters anyway), he's the best you've got.  That's how big a hole Labour are in.

[BerwickMad]

I disagree he's the best the party have got. I'm bemoaning the lack of leadership material in the party, but everyone I've mentioned would be better than Corbyn. That's no big praise for them, but he's absolutely shocking and could barely be performing any worse in his role.

[Fide]

1 hour ago, BerwickMad said:

I disagree he's the best the party have got. I'm bemoaning the lack of leadership material in the party, but everyone I've mentioned would be better than Corbyn. That's no big praise for them, but he's absolutely shocking and could barely be performing any worse in his role.

I couldn't disagree more.  Whilst it has became increasingly evident over time that Corbyn is completely shite, he's still the best you've got. 

The problem is that there are too many people looking after their own interests in Labour.  People used to vote for Labour because they were the party of the working class.  Now all everyone sees is a collection of middle class, entitled, whining, self serving cry babies.

[BerwickMad]

I couldn't disagree more.  Whilst it has became increasingly evident over time that Corbyn is completely shite, he's still the best you've got. 
The problem is that there are too many people looking after their own interests in Labour.  People used to vote for Labour because they were the party of the working class.  Now all everyone sees is a collection of middle class, entitled, whining, self serving cry babies.

Not for me. I don't think Corbyn has the 'working class' at heart. He is his own ideology at heart and he's putting that above the country. If he put working people first, he wouldn't be clinging to power, failing miserably as the Tories run rampant with next to no opposition. Him, and his supporters in the main, aren't even interested in learning the lessons of defeat, rather they point fingers and go into deluded defensive mode. There doesn't even seem to be a plan to become electable, just moans when people aren't flocking to the cause.

Labour need to learn the lessons from both New Labour, the weak leadership of Miliband and also the utterly pathetic leadership of today and come up with something new, not linked to Corbyn or Blair. Until someone is prepared to take a serious look at why the electorate are turning away in the droves, which to be fair Umunna has tried to do, they're on a hiding to nothing.

[Ira Gaines]

I'm actually with you BM. But where does Labour go? Corbyn is the only choice because the alternatives are pish.

[Colkitto]

I think Corbyn will be good for indyref2 . Can't see him deploying some of the negative stuff Milliband did, plus he's completely out his depth when it comes to Scotland and will rely on Kezia for guidance (assuming she's still in a job)  

[Fide]

55 minutes ago, BerwickMad said:

Not for me. I don't think Corbyn has the 'working class' at heart. He is his own ideology at heart and he's putting that above the country. If he put working people first, he wouldn't be clinging to power, failing miserably as the Tories run rampant with next to no opposition. Him, and his supporters in the main, aren't even interested in learning the lessons of defeat, rather they point fingers and go into deluded defensive mode. There doesn't even seem to be a plan to become electable, just moans when people aren't flocking to the cause.

Labour need to learn the lessons from both New Labour, the weak leadership of Miliband and also the utterly pathetic leadership of today and come up with something new, not linked to Corbyn or Blair. Until someone is prepared to take a serious look at why the electorate are turning away in the droves, which to be fair Umunna has tried to do, they're on a hiding to nothing.

Conversely, a lot of the current crop of Labour MPs have put voters off for their treatment of Corbyn, whether it's actively slagging him off in the press or telling him to "sit down" in the House of Commons, it doesn't do much to instill voter confidence.  And you can't lay behaviour like that at the feet of Corbyn.

Of course, being the party of abstention doesn't attract voters either.

[NotThePars]

You've got Corbyn on the one hand who's blatantly not capable at being a leader and a load of snakes on the other side. Imagine being left of centre and not being utterly desperate to flee the union.

[dorlomin]

25 minutes ago, Fide said:

Conversely, a lot of the current crop of Labour MPs have put voters off for their treatment of Corbyn,

12% of the country think he could run the economy and the clowns here think its all the fault of the Labour MP's.

 

His party massively outperforms him in polls, but its part that is holding him back.

 

 

These are not isolated results or outliers. Its pretty consistent. Its the same whiney inane shite that we used to get from the Tory right when IDS was leader. Boo f*cking hoo. The guy has not the faintest clue how to reach beyond Momentum type voters. I am bored telling people who shite he is.

 

Anyway May elections will be more girst for the mills.

[Fide]

6 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

12% of the country think he could run the economy and the clowns here think its all the fault of the Labour MP's.

 

His party massively outperforms him in polls, but its part that is holding him back.

 

 

These are not isolated results or outliers. Its pretty consistent. Its the same whiney inane shite that we used to get from the Tory right when IDS was leader. Boo f*cking hoo. The guy has not the faintest clue how to reach beyond Momentum type voters. I am bored telling people who shite he is.

 

Anyway May elections will be more girst for the mills.

Don't get me wrong, I'm thoroughly enjoying Labour's demise, north and south of the border.  They deserve it, frankly.

[williemillersmoustache]

13 minutes ago, dorlomin said:

12% of the country think he could run the economy and the clowns here think its all the fault of the Labour MP's.

Not 12% of my fucking country.

[BerwickMad]

Does the PLP treatment of Corbyn really have much of an impact for your average voter though? In my own experience, the only supporters of Corbyn I know now are in branch meetings. Of my friends, colleagues and family members a few were enthused by him at the start, that almost all disappeared with the EU referendum. I really don't know anyone outside of branch meeting caring much about what the PLP did from my experience.

Granted, the vast majority aren't overly political, but I'm talking about people who're generally anti-Tory but swing voters between Labour and Lib Dems. I also live in a rural town and work in East Lothian so it may be different in urban areas.

[Wee Willie]

21 hours ago, NotThePars said:

You've got Corbyn on the one hand who's blatantly not capable at being a leader and a load of snakes on the other side. Imagine being left of centre and not being utterly desperate to flee the union.

That's me tae a T and I'm f**king desperate tae flee the union.

20 hours ago, williemillersmoustache said:

Not 12% of my fucking country.

nor mine 

15 hours ago, BerwickMad said:

Does the PLP treatment of Corbyn really have much of an impact for your average voter though? In my own experience, the only supporters of Corbyn I know now are in branch meetings. Of my friends, colleagues and family members a few were enthused by him at the start, that almost all disappeared with the EU referendum. I really don't know anyone outside of branch meeting caring much about what the PLP did from my experience.

Granted, the vast majority aren't overly political, but I'm talking about people who're generally anti-Tory but swing voters between Labour and Lib Dems. I also live in a rural town and work in East Lothian so it may be different in urban areas.

Have ye never heard of the SNP?

[Crùbag]

Why isn't Kezia or James Kelly MSP up there?

Noticed this btw... TBH blocking most of the electorate hasn't worked for Labour.