Fudge Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 You are not a person then? I believe that well under half of the people who vote are anything more than slightly informed when it comes to a range of policies. I believe a majority of people either tag on to one specific policy they argree with (e.g, stop mass immigration), the party that historically caters to their social class or their perceptions of how strong /week the leaders of the parties seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 4, 2016 Share Posted August 4, 2016 Just watched the whole of the hustings on YouTube, not overly inspiring. There seemed to be far more support in the hall for Corbyn than there was for Smith. Smith kept having digs and Corbyn but no outright attack, Corbyn doesn't respond though I'm not sure if that's a strength or a weakness. I certainly thought Corbyn should have had a go at him when he spoke about divisions in the Labour Party but it doesn't seem to be his style. Largely it was preaching to the converted, can't see anyone changing their mind based upon what they heard tonight. ETA - I have just read the BBC report. Was there a lot of controversial stuff right at the start because the YouTube recording missed a wee bit? I cannot remember any clashes between Corbyn and Owen on party splits or resignations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broomhill Ultra Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 ETA - I have just read the BBC report. Was there a lot of controversial stuff right at the start because the YouTube recording missed a wee bit? I cannot remember any clashes between Corbyn and Owen on party splits or resignations. It was crazy, Corbyn said, 'I've had a fax from Judith in Tunbridge Wells. She asks which of you has the bigger wang'? Corbyn whips out his Papa Joe Stalin and says 'this is what you call a Red Wedge you sheep shagging splitter. Now delete your membership' I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty dingus Posted August 5, 2016 Share Posted August 5, 2016 Smith was basically the one trying to get personal whilst declaring that only he can be the supreme leader of the empire or patrol leader of the bridgend scout troop. He was also agreeing with nearly every point Corbyn made except on trident where he gibbered a pile o pish about how you reduce something by adding more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 You never know lads. Play your cards right and get the crowd going at these debates and you could build the momentum to get the Tories out of office in 2030. If Corbyn wins in Sept, the Labour party WILL split! It's perhaps the best thing that could happen to them if they want any chance of building a serious challenge to the next 10 years of Tory Government. It will NEVER happen AT ALL with an opposition led by Corbyn. He's too stubborn to accept that and will continue to make the most of his current elevated platform, that he's spent years yearning for. He can't believe his luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 20 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: If Corbyn wins in Sept, the Labour party WILL split! It's perhaps the best thing that could happen to them if they want any chance of building a serious challenge to the next 10 years of Tory Government. It will NEVER happen AT ALL with an opposition led by Corbyn. He's too stubborn to accept that and will continue to make the most of his current elevated platform, that he's spent years yearning for. He can't believe his luck. If he were to lose, the Labour Party would split. If he wins, the Blarites with their nice jobs wouldn't dare walk away. It's all about their careers and they would stand absolutely no chance in some minor SDP entity. So watch them all fall into line as soon as he wins the leadership contest. You say he can't believe his luck. Luck has absolutely nothing to do with it. He was voted in by the Labour membership. That doesn't require luck. Just people who want real change in this country. Not just blairite bluster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 If he were to lose, the Labour Party would split. If he wins, the Blarites with their nice jobs wouldn't dare walk away. It's all about their careers and they would stand absolutely no chance in some minor SDP entity. So watch them all fall into line as soon as he wins the leadership contest. You say he can't believe his luck. Luck has absolutely nothing to do with it. He was voted in by the Labour membership. That doesn't require luck. Just people who want real change in this country. Not just blairite bluster. The new Labour part membership has surged behind, the first serious left wing candidate they've had in modern times. A extra 300,000 noisy rally supporters means f**k all in the grand scheme of things though! Aye, perhaps not luck, but he never ever dreamt that he would be in this position, no way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Just now, RedRob72 said: The new Labour part membership has surged behind, the first serious left wing candidate they've had in modern times. A extra 300,000 noisy rally supporters means f**k all in the grand scheme of things though! Aye, perhaps not luck, but he never ever dreamt that he would be in this position, no way! I just find it hilarious how a party membership can surge that high so quickly and people of your ilk talk it down as some kind of disaster. It's members that will make the difference. Members are the people who go out there and campaign for their leader and their party. Who will be campaigning for the Conservatives by comparison? Besides the state media of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I just find it hilarious how a party membership can surge that high so quickly and people of your ilk talk it down as some kind of disaster. It's members that will make the difference. Members are the people who go out there and campaign for their leader and their party. Who will be campaigning for the Conservatives by comparison? Besides the state media of course. I'm not denying they have a voice now, but it's miles away from forming a credible and effective opposition never mind being in government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 2 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: I'm not denying they have a voice now, but it's miles away from forming a credible and effective opposition never mind being in government. But the people that you're backing to be a credible and effective opposition are the same people who are turning on their own party, instead of sticking it to the Conservative Party when the opportunities present themselves. How can they ever be considered a credible opposition to a party that they would much rather side with if it means getting a personal dig at their own party leader? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedRob72 Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 But the people that you're backing to be a credible and effective opposition are the same people who are turning on their own party, instead of sticking it to the Conservative Party when the opportunities present themselves. How can they ever be considered a credible opposition to a party that they would much rather side with if it means getting a personal dig at their own party leader? It's a quandary eh!? They're in a proper p***kle! Beyond the point of no return, the split is inevitable now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 But the people that you're backing to be a credible and effective opposition are the same people who are turning on their own party, instead of sticking it to the Conservative Party when the opportunities present themselves. How can they ever be considered a credible opposition to a party that they would much rather side with if it means getting a personal dig at their own party leader? This is what gets me,watching labour mp's thanking a Tory leader for going against their own leader is absolutely disgusting. Voting against your own leader,not because he's come up with some crackpot policy,but because,well just because.Then there is the abstentions. Opposition my arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 7 minutes ago, RedRob72 said: It's a quandary eh!? They're in a proper p***kle! Beyond the point of no return, the split is inevitable now. I don't think there will be a split if Corbyn wins again. Some of them may defect to the Conservative Party if positions become available. Others will remain in the Labour Party and will continue to try and cause as much damage as possible. Not a single one of them will give up their salaries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I don't think there will be a split if Corbyn wins again. Some of them may defect to the Conservative Party if positions become available. Others will remain in the Labour Party and will continue to try and cause as much damage as possible. Not a single one of them will give up their salaries. Let's hope that isn't an option, and their CLP decide for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordon EF Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 Smith is a typical New Labour slime ball. Him doing the little Tony Blair thumb jab every 3rd of 4th word does make me want to cut off his thumbs a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlandmagyar Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 I don't think there will be a split if Corbyn wins again. Some of them may defect to the Conservative Party if positions become available. Others will remain in the Labour Party and will continue to try and cause as much damage as possible. Not a single one of them will give up their salaries. They don't have to give up their salaries. They can split away take majority of the PLP with them get the speaker to recognise them as the official opposition and campaign towards the next general election. When Corbyn wins they might as well split to offer something different from the left wing ragbag of Corbyn and Co. They will get roasted at the next election under him anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cream Cheese Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 3 minutes ago, Highlandmagyar said: They don't have to give up their salaries. They can split away take majority of the PLP with them get the speaker to recognise them as the official opposition and campaign towards the next general election. When Corbyn wins they might as well split to offer something different from the left wing ragbag of Corbyn and Co. They will get roasted at the next election under him anyway. How will they get themselves recognized as the official opposition, if the vast swab of Labour voters continue to back Corbyn's Labour? A new party trying to position itself to the centre would have about as much credibility as the Liberal Democrats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakedee Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 They don't have to give up their salaries. They can split away take majority of the PLP with them get the speaker to recognise them as the official opposition and campaign towards the next general election. When Corbyn wins they might as well split to offer something different from the left wing ragbag of Corbyn and Co. They will get roasted at the next election under him anyway. Good to see the Corbyn described as a left wing ragbag, here was me thinking the Labour party were supposed to be a left party, obviously not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 The position of the MSM on this issue has, not surprisingly, been shocking. This contest is happening because the majority of the PLP want it; it will be a fair and democratic vote and decision. If we had a credible and objective MSM the one question they would be asking ALL Labour MPs is "Having forced this leadership contest will you accept the result and stand behind whoever is elected leader?" That is a fair and reasonable question to ask. That is the question that definitely should be getting asked. I don't see it happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
invergowrie arab Posted August 7, 2016 Share Posted August 7, 2016 If Smith wins (lol) how long does he get to turn the polls around before being declared unelectable and having another leadership election? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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