Detournement Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 5 minutes ago, Shadow Play said: I know a couple of Americans that have invested heavily over here. I don’t think they are going to make any money though. The two yanks on Tannadice St? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Granny Danger Posted December 13, 2019 Share Posted December 13, 2019 51 minutes ago, Shadow Play said: I know a couple of Americans that have invested heavily over here. I don’t think they are going to make any money though. It surprises me that they think they can. I just hope we are in a more secure position before Ogren learns his mistake. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dw260307 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 In 2020 Black Friday was great opportunity for users who didn't has money to buy things in this pandemic i want to share my experience of poshmark and ebay they give huge amount of discount on every essential things. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MuckleMoo Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Think the bot might be getting it's black Fridays mixed up 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Malkmus Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 BOE ending their gilt buying programme on Friday. Sounds like the pension funds are going to be under pressure to sell their long term gilts or go bust if they haven't sorted their shit out by the end of the week. I know f**k all about this tbh but would be quite the spectacle to see pensioners burning down post offices at the weekend 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florentine_Pogen Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 4 minutes ago, Stephen Malkmus said: BOE ending their gilt buying programme on Friday. Sounds like the pension funds are going to be under pressure to sell their long term gilts or go bust if they haven't sorted their shit out by the end of the week. I know f**k all about this tbh but would be quite the spectacle to see pensioners burning down post offices at the weekend https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/oct/11/imf-tax-cuts-criticism-adds-to-pressure-on-liz-truss-uk-government "The central bank had started the day by saying it would revamp the scheme’s bond-buying firepower – within the existing timeframe – for a second time in as many days, warning there were still “material risks” in government debt markets affecting UK pension funds. However, it ended with Bailey saying the intervention must end this week, telling an event organised by the Institute of International Finance in Washington: “We have announced that we will be out by the end of this week. We think the rebalancing must be done. “My message to the funds involved and all the firms involved managing those funds: You’ve got three days left now. You’ve got to get this done.” It comes after the International Monetary Fund added to pressure on Liz Truss’ government to U-turn on unfunded tax cuts announced in last month’s mini-budget, saying changes in policy would help calm jittery financial markets." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted October 11, 2022 Share Posted October 11, 2022 1 hour ago, Stephen Malkmus said: BOE ending their gilt buying programme on Friday. Sounds like the pension funds are going to be under pressure to sell their long term gilts or go bust if they haven't sorted their shit out by the end of the week. I know f**k all about this tbh but would be quite the spectacle to see pensioners burning down post offices at the weekend Yet they’ll still go and vote Tory 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theroadlesstravelled Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 2 hours ago, Stephen Malkmus said: BOE ending their gilt buying programme on Friday. Sounds like the pension funds are going to be under pressure to sell their long term gilts or go bust if they haven't sorted their shit out by the end of the week. I know f**k all about this tbh but would be quite the spectacle to see pensioners burning down post offices at the weekend whit aboot ma pension types fucked over the rest of us in 2014. Happy to see pensioners get their comeuppance. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antlion Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 27 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Yet they’ll still go and vote Tory Well of course - the ones who do that can always burn Jubilee tea towels to keep warm and gorge themselves on decomposing marmalade sandwiches. They’ll be alright. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshbairn Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 We've had evil c***s and charlatans leading us before but I've never seen this level of incompetence. Beginning to think that everyone hiving off into different and isolated whatsap groups and twitter feeds is blinding people to collective rationality. Oor Liz going from Lib Dem anti monarchist to Tory remainer to the furthest fringes of ERG disaster capitalism is like Kurtz's voyage down the Congo in Conrad's Heart of Darkness. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 "Look at me! I'm the Governor of the Bank of England!" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullerene Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 7 hours ago, welshbairn said: We've had evil c***s and charlatans leading us before but I've never seen this level of incompetence. Beginning to think that everyone hiving off into different and isolated whatsap groups and twitter feeds is blinding people to collective rationality. Oor Liz going from Lib Dem anti monarchist to Tory remainer to the furthest fringes of ERG disaster capitalism is like Kurtz's voyage down the Congo in Conrad's Heart of Darkness. "In a recent vox pop we asked people about their opinion on a range of issues and what needed to be done. They were fairly evenly split on most things". "That's interesting. How many people in your sample?" "Just the one." 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 8 hours ago, Theroadlesstravelled said: whit aboot ma pension types fucked over the rest of us in 2014. Happy to see pensioners get their comeuppance. 10 hours ago, Stephen Malkmus said: BOE ending their gilt buying programme on Friday. Sounds like the pension funds are going to be under pressure to sell their long term gilts or go bust if they haven't sorted their shit out by the end of the week. I know f**k all about this tbh but would be quite the spectacle to see pensioners burning down post offices at the weekend Is it only pensioners that have pension funds? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
btb Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) 10 hours ago, Stephen Malkmus said: BOE ending their gilt buying programme on Friday. Sounds like the pension funds are going to be under pressure to sell their long term gilts or go bust if they haven't sorted their shit out by the end of the week. I know f**k all about this tbh but would be quite the spectacle to see pensioners burning down post offices at the weekend With the pound falling on this news, there are now hints that gilt buying will be extended - 10 hours is an eternity on the VirtualVegas that is the Stock Exchange. Edited October 12, 2022 by btb 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suspect Device Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 My SIPP in the last year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 It doesn't make any sense that pension funds are at serious risk due to the spread on bond yields. Especially since they are just coming off 14 years of cheap money and inflated asset prices. If it's true the level of mismanagement is criminal. It's more likely a stand off between the funds and the BoE/Treasury to see how much of their short term losses they can shove onto the tax payer. The QE tap has to be turned off at some point and obviously the people who have benefited from £800 billion of free money are going to do whatever they can to keep it flowing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 8 minutes ago, Detournement said: It doesn't make any sense that pension funds are at serious risk due to the spread on bond yields. Especially since they are just coming off 14 years of cheap money and inflated asset prices. If it's true the level of mismanagement is criminal. It's more likely a stand off between the funds and the BoE/Treasury to see how much of their short term losses they can shove onto the tax payer. The QE tap has to be turned off at some point and obviously the people who have benefited from £800 billion of free money are going to do whatever they can to keep it flowing. It's not all about losses or whether they have the assets to cover those losses. It's about liquidity. The recent history of cheap money and high asset prices is part of the problem, not a mitigating factor. Cheap money (ie low gilt yields) is why they've bought gilts on margin. The fall from those high prices is why those investments are now below the required margin and require cash. They need cash to pay the calls from brokers so will have to sell assets to get cash. If a load of pension funds suddenly sell a lot of assets then asset prices will tank. If the assets they sell are gilts or anything else that investors have leveraged positions on then there will be more need to sell and prices will get pushed down further. Listed shares and properties, including housing, are investments that are widely held by a lot of people, with lots of people having a mortgage on their house. It would be politically undesirable for contagion to reach those markets. I don't agree your take on what's going on exactly but i think i agree with your underlying point. This is the another episode of the public bearing the cost of risks taken by private companies who have benefitted from taking those risks when the going was good. Pension funds, like banks before them, were supposed to be ultra prudent. Many are now indistinguishable from private equity funds except that they are much, much larger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 7 minutes ago, coprolite said: It's not all about losses or whether they have the assets to cover those losses. It's about liquidity. The recent history of cheap money and high asset prices is part of the problem, not a mitigating factor. Cheap money (ie low gilt yields) is why they've bought gilts on margin. The fall from those high prices is why those investments are now below the required margin and require cash. I must be missing something. The return on any bond is fixed when it is issued. The UK government has never defaulted on a bond. Therefore any change in the value of a bond is only possible relative to other possible investments. Given that any change in short term value can only ever be a fraction of the fixed return it's hard to see how this could sink a responsible pension fund. It looks very much like the pension funds want the government to buy the low yield bonds they were all happily buying for years so they have cash to invest into more profitable vehicles now interest rates are higher. The reality is even with super low interest rates and shit growth the BoE never had any problem selling bonds. There is no where else for that money to go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coprolite Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 10 minutes ago, Detournement said: I must be missing something. The return on any bond is fixed when it is issued. The nominal return is fixed at issue but bonds can be bought or sold. The net present value of the income stream and capital redemption (or resale value) gives the bond its price. So if they've bought a £100 bond with a 0.5% coupon for £25, their return will be 4%. The UK government has never defaulted on a bond. Therefore any change in the value of a bond is only possible relative to other possible investments. Given that any change in short term value can only ever be a fraction of the fixed return it's hard to see how this could sink a responsible pension fund. They've bought on margin, which is a form of leverage. So if they have say £100 worth of bonds they might only have funded £20 of that. That amplifies returns and gains but also losses. A 1% coupon on a £100 bond is a 5% return on a £20 investment. What has happened is that inflation means the value of future cashflows from interest and redemption/ sale are lower so that £100 in ten years is now worth (say) £60. The broker is only willing to fund 80% of value so wants (hang on....) £32 back so that they're only funding £48. It's that cash that the funds are needing to find. Their loss is £40 whether they get it or not. It looks very much like the pension funds want the government to buy the low yield bonds they were all happily buying for years so they have cash to invest into more profitable vehicles now interest rates are higher. As per above, most of the cash is to fund those margin calls and will be going to brokers, not new assets. But... The BofE making a market is keeping the price artificially high and stopping the brokers taking a loss. I haven't found who typically funds these brokers but i'd expect it to be debt funds, with cash from private equity, pensions, insurers etc. The reality is even with super low interest rates and shit growth the BoE never had any problem selling bonds. There is no where else for that money to go. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detournement Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 (edited) If these are bonds bought on the secondary market rather than at the Treasury auction then it has nothing to do with the government at all. It's like complaining to BMW about the second hand car you bought If pension fund managers are risking their funds to buy low yield bonds on leverage then we are back in 2008 and the bailout needs to be accompanied with legislation, prosecutions and fines to make sure they don't do it again. Have any at risk pension funds even been named? Edited October 12, 2022 by Detournement 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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