fueradejuego Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 5 hours ago, 1320Lichtie said: IMO English teams just buy all the top players, anyone they want really, and throw them into a side. Foreign teams seem to have much better chemistry, they look like proper teams/units where everybody knows what they are doing and what their role is. So when you have a side like that that is also full of talent, a champions league team, they'll beat the English side. I've thought this for years, don't know if I've explained it well enough. That problem will only increase over the coming years with the new TV deal. Why should an English side spend maybe 3 or 4 years and a few million quid developing a couple of players for the first team (assuming that they have players around 15/16 who are good enough in the first place) when you can just go out and spend £20m and buy more or less anyone that you want? Stoke are a good exampled just now. Hughes has been signing all sorts of players to ensure they remain in mid-table. With less money, European teams are forced to look around and sign players who fit the system they want to play etc. Sevilla are the perfect example. They may spend a fair bit of cash each summer but they nearly always recoup far more from player sales. And yet they don't collapse as they buy payers who fit what they're trying to achieve. Its not just random purchases. If I'm Stoke and I waste £20m on a player who doesn't fit in, I'll offload him for maybe £10m and then go and sign another £20m player. It doesn't matter as I'm pocketing over £100m from the TV deal alone each year. It's all short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 That problem will only increase over the coming years with the new TV deal. Why should an English side spend maybe 3 or 4 years and a few million quid developing a couple of players for the first team (assuming that they have players around 15/16 who are good enough in the first place) when you can just go out and spend £20m and buy more or less anyone that you want? Stoke are a good exampled just now. Hughes has been signing all sorts of players to ensure they remain in mid-table. With less money, European teams are forced to look around and sign players who fit the system they want to play etc. Sevilla are the perfect example. They may spend a fair bit of cash each summer but they nearly always recoup far more from player sales. And yet they don't collapse as they buy payers who fit what they're trying to achieve. Its not just random purchases. If I'm Stoke and I waste £20m on a player who doesn't fit in, I'll offload him for maybe £10m and then go and sign another £20m player. It doesn't matter as I'm pocketing over £100m from the TV deal alone each year. It's all short term. It is but I think that even when your Bayerns/Real Madrids etc spend big money they go for the players that suit their systems better in comparison to say a Manchester United who've just went and bought a load of big names. Real Madrid used to do this too. For example why spend all that money on Pogba? They could've got Kante, much cheaper and it's a type of player they've not got.Not sure there's really any English teams doing this now, Liverpool kind of but the players aren't at the same level. Mane for example didn't look too great a signing on paper but he just really suits the way Liverpool play and has been fantastic for them.As topcat points out Leicester basically won the league because of it, they were a proper team, everyone could play the way Ranieri wanted and it all came together for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 30 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said: It is but I think that even when your Bayerns/Real Madrids etc spend big money they go for the players that suit their systems better in comparison to say a Manchester United who've just went and bought a load of big names. Real Madrid used to do this too. For example why spend all that money on Pogba? They could've got Kante, much cheaper and it's a type of player they've not got. When you're in a dominant position like Bayern or Real already it's a lot easier to do that kind of thing. Bob Paisley at Liverpool would make about two signings a year which meant that the team effectively turned over every 5 years but there was never a break in continuity. Once Manchester United had replaced Liverpool as top dogs Ferguson's signing policy wasn't too different. He'd break transfer records to get the few players he really wanted but didn't overhaul the squad. For the manager of a club that's not where the owners thing it it should be that approach is a luxury they can ill afford and almost all managers in the EPL are managing clubs that aren't fulfilling expectations. There's at least 7 clubs that "should be in the top 4" and about three dozend that are "Too big for the championship" The cut throat competition of the Premiership in recent years can't be helping alleviate this short termism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fueradejuego Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 hour ago, 1320Lichtie said: It is but I think that even when your Bayerns/Real Madrids etc spend big money they go for the players that suit their systems better in comparison to say a Manchester United who've just went and bought a load of big names. Real Madrid used to do this too. For example why spend all that money on Pogba? They could've got Kante, much cheaper and it's a type of player they've not got. Not sure there's really any English teams doing this now, Liverpool kind of but the players aren't at the same level. Mane for example didn't look too great a signing on paper but he just really suits the way Liverpool play and has been fantastic for them. As topcat points out Leicester basically won the league because of it, they were a proper team, everyone could play the way Ranieri wanted and it all came together for them. Real went through the whole Galatico period under Perez spending money wildly and crashing and burning repeatedly. They still spend big but its more considered now and less gung ho. The TV deal in Spain is now less individual and more collective. They are still seriously wealthy but its a little more redistributive now. All big teams will spend heavily at certain times. Liverpool won't spend that much under Klopp in comparison because of the type of coach that Klopp is. He tries to focus on developing players and his system is so difficult to implement, he really has to work with players too. What is different now is the ability of mediocre dross sides languishing around the lower reaches of the Premier League being able to outbid almost all sides in Europe in transfer fees and then offer up daft wages too. When you can spend so lavishly, you don't need to do any work you just spend. When you have no cash or less of it, you take your time (in theory) and you consider the players available to you and who you buy. You can't afford to take risks and get it wrong The Sporting Director at Sevilla, Monchi, has said as much here:- https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/may/17/sevilla-monchi-liverpool-europa-league-final Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheScarf Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 3 hours ago, fueradejuego said: What is different now is the ability of mediocre dross sides languishing around the lower reaches of the Premier League being able to outbid almost all sides in Europe in transfer fees and then offer up daft wages too. This is the crux of the problem for me. Clubs like Crystal Palace, West Ham and Stoke especially can outbid most of the Bundesliga and a lot of the teams in Spain, Italy and France for talent. But they all get thrown together by some average manager with nothing on their CV and they're expected to be a cohesive unit and have this kind of brilliant chemistry. It's daft for anyone to believe these clubs will be successful. The way they do things in the other top leagues is on the other end of the spectrum; clubs try to build a team to fit a formation or style, and when he get these players, the rewards usually follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Brightside Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Chelsea seem to be the only team to have bought players to suit their system whilst being able to use the players they already had effectively. Signing Kante was vitally important as him and Matic are great spoilers which gives the front three and the wing backs licence to get forward. Marcos Alonso was a signing that raised more than a few eyebrows, however he was clearly bought as he suits the wing back role, whilst Conte has turned Moses into a wing back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerberus Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Paying £20 million for Andre Ayew is why English football is shite. As much money they get in from the TV, they pay out is massively bloated transfer fees. Juventus are probably still pissing themselves over the Pogba deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MEADOWXI Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 If and not impossibleMan Utd win Europa League Leicester win the Champions LeagueBoth finish outside top 4 in England How many and who gets into Champions league next year representing England? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wile E Coyote Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 12 minutes ago, MEADOWXI said: If and not impossible Man Utd win Europa League Leicester win the Champions League Both finish outside top 4 in England How many and who gets into Champions league next year representing England? Five. Fourth place will enter the europa league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1320Lichtie Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Paying £20 million for Andre Ayew is why English football is shite. As much money they get in from the TV, they pay out is massively bloated transfer fees. Juventus are probably still pissing themselves over the Pogba deal. The English clubs for all the money they have seem to have really shitey scouts. Always go for players in England and pay a fortune for them, not sure if it's because they think that only the superstars from other countries leagues can play in the EPL or what but they just seem so lazy. Leicester picking up Kante and Mahrez for buttons for example. Southampton getting VVD, Wanyama and Forster relatively cheap. It can't be that difficult to bring in genuine talent for a lot less than they are with the money they have available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Last Summer the daily mash nailed this with the headline Sunderland to spend £30m on someone, anyonehttp://www.thedailymash.co.uk/sport/sport-headlines/sunderland-to-spend-30m-on-someone-anyone-20160719111039 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ICTChris Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Interesting article about why England have slipped in the Champions League by Michael Coxhttp://www.espnfc.co.uk/uefa-champions-league/2/blog/post/3083787/why-are-premier-league-clubs-so-bad-in-the-champions-league-in-a-word-parity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s_dog Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 I just had a quick scan of that article but is he really arguing that the English Premier League is so competitive is why they aren't doing so well in Europe? Whereas the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich are so dominant at domestic level they reach the latter stages every year? So the argument that Scottish teams (well Celtic just at the moment) are so shit in Europe because they don't get challenged enough domestically is rubbish. He talks about Leicester being the fourth different English club that has made it to the quarter finals and how although English clubs only have four quarter finalists in recent years, just because Spain have had 15 in the same period, its been just four different club's therefore "Spain's and Germany's dominance is a reflection not of the quality of the league overall but, rather, of the staggering dominance of its bloated, all-powerful super clubs". The only staggering thing is that Leicester have broken the staggering dominance of the England's "bloated, all-powerful super clubs". How many different English teams have reached the quarter finals even before the last few seasons when they haven't done as well. Its the same names all the time there too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cal234ey Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Monaco v DortmundAtletico v Leicester Bayern v Real Juventus v Barcelona Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blootoon87 Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Monaco v Dortmund could end up 10-10 on aggregate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J_Stewart Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 9 minutes ago, cal234ey said: Monaco v Dortmund Atletico v Leicester Bayern v Real Juventus v Barcelona On 15/03/2017 at 21:47, RandomGuy. said: It's nice to see a few different sides making the latter stages this year in Monaco and Leicester, not convinced either will go any further unless they draw each other though, sadly. Monaco v Dortmund Bayern v Real Madrid Juventus v Barcelona Atletico v Leicester Would be my favoured draw. BURN THE WITCH!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bully Wee Villa Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Have they decided who potentially plays who in the semis? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
forameus Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 It's another draw after the quarters I think for that, they don't do them at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanky_ffc Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 On 15 March 2017 at 23:19, lanky_ffc said: Good win for Monaco as they continue to score a freakish amount of goals despite not taking a massive amount of shots. They're a joy to watch and it'll be sad when they get ripped apart in the summer. Hopefully they get drawn against Dortmund or Real next round for another goalfest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 17, 2017 Share Posted March 17, 2017 Bayern vs Real Madrid is the champions league in microcosm I dislike both clubs but they're just about the best in the world so I still want to watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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