Premier League 2016-2017

[Widge]

Did Gerrard not get punted out to the right wing when Alonso and Mascherano were fit because both were superior central midfielders in the role Liverpool required?
Gerrard was a very good player at his peak, and was capable of brilliant performances driving the ball through midfield, but he lacked any semblance of tactical discipline, constantly smashed long diagonals out of the park when simple passes were available (See also Rooney, W. for both of these) and was far too selfish a player to ever be considered world class. Good though he was, he never consistently reached the level of Vieira, Keane, Scholes, Lampard, Alonso, or Makelele, and I'd have taken any of those players before Gerrard.

That is pretty much covered it. Gerard will always be considered a brilliant player (he was in his own right), but he was never the top midfielder of his time. He was spectacular and that's what people remember, but all to often he was indisciplined or try too much.

He was a great midfielder, but one of the bet ever, he was not. I'd rather have Lampard out if the two, and even then probably Scholes over both.

[Rab B Nesbit]

1 hour ago, J_Stewart said:

Did Gerrard not get punted out to the right wing when Alonso and Mascherano were fit because both were superior central midfielders in the role Liverpool required?

Gerrard was a very good player at his peak, and was capable of brilliant performances driving the ball through midfield, but he lacked any semblance of tactical discipline, constantly smashed long diagonals out of the park when simple passes were available (See also Rooney, W. for both of these) and was far too selfish a player to ever be considered world class. Good though he was, he never consistently reached the level of Vieira, Keane, Scholes, Lampard, Alonso, or Makelele, and I'd have taken any of those players before Gerrard.

At times yes and also behind the Striker (Torres) where he assisted and scored goals for fun. 

1 hour ago, accies1874 said:

The league was already pretty much lost come the Palace game - that just made it all the funnier. They were desperate to rack up more goals due City's much better GD that season. Slippy G cost them the league.

I agree and the slip was pivotal. Liverpool lose and 20 minutes later Man City take an early lead down at Palace and never look back. Previously their last minute equaliser at home to Sunderland was massive cutting the gap from 4 points to 3. 

[7-2]

Stay with club you love, have very good career, earn a fortune but don't win so may trophies = small minded, wasted career, no ambition (basically see also Shearer, A)

Leave for another club mainly to win trophies = judas, mercenary, no loyalty in football any more.

This debate is a classic example of damned if you do, damned if you don't in football!

[accies1874]

I agree and the slip was pivotal. Liverpool lose and 20 minutes later Man City take an early lead down at Palace and never look back. Previously their last minute equaliser at home to Sunderland was massive cutting the gap from 4 points to 3. 

It was a complete bottle-job from both Liverpool and Everton; come April, they were both in the driving seat for the title and 4th place respectively, but neither of them ended up achieving it. Palace ended up contributing to both.

[Sx Drugz N Martin Jol]

Stay with club you love, have very good career, earn a fortune but don't win so may trophies = small minded, wasted career, no ambition (basically see also Shearer, A)
Leave for another club mainly to win trophies = judas, mercenary, no loyalty in football any more.
This debate is a classic example of damned if you do, damned if you don't in football!

Probably the most sensible thing you've said [emoji23]

[1320Lichtie]

I agree and the slip was pivotal. Liverpool lose and 20 minutes later Man City take an early lead down at Palace and never look back. Previously their last minute equaliser at home to Sunderland was massive cutting the gap from 4 points to 3. 

Unreal behind Torres. World class for me is being good enough to be a great player for any club in the world. Which IMO he definitely was good enough to be just because he never moved to another club isn't a reason to put him down.

Real Madrid wanted him, Chelsea wanted him, Manchester United wanted him, Bayern wanted him, Inter Milan wanted him. All the top European clubs of the time were after him.

He also gave more to the Liverpool team than the World Class (which I agree with too) Alonso did. Watching him pull Liverpool back into huge games time after time was one of the main things that lead me to love the guy.

Absolutely brilliant football player, always gave his absolute all and he also had the dirty side to him as well.

[1320Lichtie]

Stay with club you love, have very good career, earn a fortune but don't win so may trophies = small minded, wasted career, no ambition (basically see also Shearer, A)
Leave for another club mainly to win trophies = judas, mercenary, no loyalty in football any more.
This debate is a classic example of damned if you do, damned if you don't in football!

Exactly

I don't think Alonso as an individual football player became any better or worse when he made the move to Madrid or Bayern.

Weird logic to use. They're team achievements not individual ones.

[Mr. Brightside]

The debate has nothing to do with people leaving and being called a "Judas".
It's about how Steven Gerrard was overrated. Frank Lampard was a far superior player than Gerrard also.

[Rab B Nesbit]

3 minutes ago, 1320Lichtie said:

Unreal behind Torres. World class for me is being good enough to be a great player for any club in the world. Which IMO he definitely was good enough to be just because he never moved to another club isn't a reason to put him down.

Real Madrid wanted him, Chelsea wanted him, Manchester United wanted him, Bayern wanted him, Inter Milan wanted him. All the top European clubs of the time were after him.

He also gave more to the Liverpool team than the World Class (which I agree with too) Alonso did. Watching him pull Liverpool back into huge games time after time was one of the main things that lead me to love the guy.

Absolutely brilliant football player, always gave his absolute all and he also had the dirty side to him as well.

Along with Kenny Dalglish he's widely regarded amongst the support as the best player ever to play for Liverpool. 

Alonso is a very good player but he never reached Gerrard's level at Liverpool. For me he had a pretty average 18 months before a brilliant last season (2008/09) after which he joined Real, finally cemented a starting place for Spain and became world class. 

[Ludo*1]

I'd have Gerrard every day of the week ahead of Lampard. My preferred order of the '5' that used to be debated is:

Scholes > Vieira > Keane > Gerrard > Lampard.

I half wanted to put Gerrard ahead of Keane too but I think my appreciation for Keane is just simmering as time goes on.

[1320Lichtie]

The debate has nothing to do with people leaving and being called a "Judas".
It's about how Steven Gerrard was overrated. Frank Lampard was a far superior player than Gerrard also.

Steven Gerrard was a superior player to Lampard.

Of course it's about opinions here when the players individual achievements are so similar.

[Dudu Dahan pal]

Exactly

I don't think Alonso as an individual football player became any better or worse when he made the move to Madrid or Bayern.

Weird logic to use. They're team achievements not individual ones.

He evidently became a better player once he moved to Real Madrid. Most players would considering they're playing with some of the best players in the world.

[Rab B Nesbit]

17 hours ago, Honest_Man#1 said:

You heading to The Riverside then Rab? 

If Boro play like they did on Sunday then it'll be an easy 3 points for you. It was the most disappointed/seething I've been for a while. Was at a couple of home wins over Liverpool when Boro were last in the PL so would be good to keep the run going.

Yes I am HM ... our first trip to the Riverside in a while! Had some bad results over the years and after the last 2 Liverpool results not overly confident either. Are you making it down? 

[Mr. Brightside]

1 minute ago, 1320Lichtie said:

 

Steven Gerrard was a superior player to Lampard.

Of course it's about opinions here when the players individual achievements are so similar.

 

[1320Lichtie]

Could've just done the same to the original one like but oh well

[Sx Drugz N Martin Jol]

The hatred towards Liverpool and Gerrard is clearly clouding most people's judgement on this.

Yes football is all about opinions and there is no right or wrong answer but to say he wasn't as good as Alonso...... Cmon , Gerrard was there for what 17 seasons??

Yes Alonso went on to bigger and better things with real and bayern but put me in those teams and I'd look like a player. Gerrard was in pretty poor Liverpool teams in comparison but managed to win a few trophies along the way. He brought the best out of those around him and dragged his team across the line on countless occasions. Yes never won a league trophy but his dedication to Liverpool was the fault for this. If he'd been in a united, real, bayern, Chelsea squad he'd be a far more decorated player but individual accolades should not over shadow his great career.

[8MileBU]

I agree with the comments re Alonso being world class. Unfortunately I don't think Liverpool had the squad to get the best out of him as other than Gerrard and Torres, can't really think of any player in that era at Liverpool that particularly stood out. I mind their being a lot of hype about Reina being a great keeper. Personally thought he was a decent shot stopper but other than that, he was pretty pish. Loved a wild flap at a cross.

[mizfit]

I'd have Gerrard every day of the week ahead of Lampard. My preferred order of the '5' that used to be debated is:

Scholes > Vieira > Keane > Gerrard > Lampard.

I half wanted to put Gerrard ahead of Keane too but I think my appreciation for Keane is just simmering as time goes on.

My favourite thing about Roy Keane was just how little a f**k he gave, and how much of a big deal he made out of petty arguments.

[Ludo*1]

I agree with the comments re Alonso being world class. Unfortunately I don't think Liverpool had the squad to get the best out of him as other than Gerrard and Torres, can't really think of any player in that era at Liverpool that particularly stood out. I mind their being a lot of hype about Reina being a great keeper. Personally thought he was a decent shot stopper but other than that, he was pretty pish. Loved a wild flap at a cross.

Reina was probably their best keeper since Grobbelaar.

ETA: To fix my grammar.

[8MileBU]

Reina was probably their best keeper since Grobbelaar.
ETA: To fix my grammar.

Not disputing that but given the hype when he signed and the weekly wage they gave him, you'd have thought he was up there with Buffon etc as one of the best keepers in the world.