Coefficientwatch

[Antony]

2 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Don't think that UEFA wouldn't sanction it because of the bonus points system, but it's likely to be won by a side already qualified for Europe so the place will go to 5th anyway.

And of the 10 countries who have a league cup, only two - England and France - reward the winners with a Europa League place, and France are disbanding their tournament next season anyway.

Yeah but of those 10 countries only 4 countries (including Scotland) have 5 or more European spots. Also our League Cup is probably the most prestigious and important to win in Europe, given that most League Cups only started appearing in the 80s and 90s with many being abolished since then. I don't think there would be a problem from UEFA. And as you said 80% of the time the winner will be finishing in the top 5 anyway so it wouldn't matter that much, but would just give the League Cup an extra bit of shine. I would like a play-off for the last European spot like they do in the Netherlands. 

[54_and_counting]

On 27/01/2020 at 01:18, Antony said:

With an extra European spot, could they instead have a European play-off similar to Netherlands or Northern Ireland. This would especially give the top teams in the bottom 6 something to play for. So 6th could play 7th and the winner plays 5th for a European spot. If the Scottish Cup winners take the European berth you could either just cancel the Europa playoffs or have it incorporate 4 teams. 

After the split, the top teams in the bottom 6, usually have nothing to play for as they are safe from relegation and obviously can't move further up the table. It would make finishing top of the bottom 6 important and give a focus at the end of season, getting big crowds for a game that feels like a cup final or semi with a European spot riding on it. 

Pretty harsh if all your season efforts get humped in one game at the end of the season, you've burst your arse all season then one game where you're off form costs your guys a shot at Europe

[Antony]

On 08/02/2020 at 18:50, 54_and_counting said:

Pretty harsh if all your season efforts get humped in one game at the end of the season, you've burst your arse all season then one game where you're off form costs your guys a shot at Europe

That is true, but you could say the same for the lower league playoffs, what's the difference between 2nd, 3rd or 4th. It works in other countries so they could possibly consider it. 

[Ludo*1]

I'd be all for it going to the League Cup winner tbh.

[54_and_counting]

5 hours ago, Antony said:

That is true, but you could say the same for the lower league playoffs, what's the difference between 2nd, 3rd or 4th. It works in other countries so they could possibly consider it. 

I agree, the idea on the playoffs is a joke that your whole season comes down to one or two games, shite for guys that have burst their arses all season

[Distant Doonhamer]

Somewhat unexpected coefficient boost from Ibrox tonight [emoji50]

[Ginaro]

13 minutes ago, Distant Doonhamer said:

Somewhat unexpected coefficient boost from Ibrox tonight

Unbelievable Jeff, we're now up to 14th! A win next week for Celtic and we move up ahead of Denmark as well. Only two wins away from equalling our best ever score from 07/08. Looking like only Switzerland will have a club in the next round from the countries below us, so 15th is basically guaranteed.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Ginaro

[Ray Patterson]

We're secured 14th place unless Basel go on to win the Europa.

Czechia have all teams out, and Cyprus's one side - APOEL  lost 0-3 at home to Basel.

So that means for 2021-22: (same if we finish 13th)

League Winners - Champions League QR3 (Champs path)
2nd place - Champions League QR2 (League path)
Cup Winners - Europa League QR3
3rd and 4th place - Conference League - QR2

Edited February 20, 2020 by ArabAuslander

[craigkillie]

The main benefits for the rest of us is that the 3rd placed side/Scottish Cup winners will still be in the Europa League and will enter in QR3. If they lose they will then drop down into the new Conference League Playoff Round. That means they get two bites of the cherry, and if they win either they'll be in a group stage.

The next two sides (4th and 5th, or 3rd and 4th if the cup winners are outside the top four) will enter the Conference League at QR2.

This means everyone entering later than usual.

[Ray Patterson]

1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

The main benefits for the rest of us is that the 3rd placed side/Scottish Cup winners will still be in the Europa League and will enter in QR3. If they lose they will then drop down into the new Conference League Playoff Round. That means they get two bites of the cherry, and if they win either they'll be in a group stage.

The next two sides (4th and 5th, or 3rd and 4th if the cup winners are outside the top four) will enter the Conference League at QR2.

This means everyone entering later than usual.

Great chance to have 3 (or more) teams in Group Stage European action.

[Ludo*1]

What do we need to do to look at 12th?

[bennett]

58 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

The main benefits for the rest of us is that the 3rd placed side/Scottish Cup winners will still be in the Europa League and will enter in QR3. If they lose they will then drop down into the new Conference League Playoff Round. That means they get two bites of the cherry, and if they win either they'll be in a group stage.

The next two sides (4th and 5th, or 3rd and 4th if the cup winners are outside the top four) will enter the Conference League at QR2.

This means everyone entering later than usual.

Aberdeen will still screw it up tho...

[Ginaro]

15 minutes ago, Ludo*1 said:

What do we need to do to look at 12th?

For this season? Assuming Salzburg and Linz don't score points next week, we'd need to score 20 points, which is 10 wins, to overtake Austria.

Not going to happen - but come July we will begin the qualifiers in 12th place: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2021.html So it'll be a case of whether we can continue to do as well as this season, will be harder as our cup winners/2nd place will have one fewer qualifying round to gain points.

[craigkillie]

For this season? Assuming Salzburg and Linz don't score points next week, we'd need to score 20 points, which is 10 wins, to overtake Austria.
Not going to happen - but come July we will begin the qualifiers in 12th place: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2021.html So it'll be a case of whether we can continue to do as well as this season, will be harder as our cup winners/2nd place will have one fewer qualifying round to gain points.

To be fair, that could very easily be offset by whoever qualifies being not quite so inept as we were.

[Ray Patterson]

38 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

For this season? Assuming Salzburg and Linz don't score points next week, we'd need to score 20 points, which is 10 wins, to overtake Austria.

Not going to happen - but come July we will begin the qualifiers in 12th place: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2021.html So it'll be a case of whether we can continue to do as well as this season, will be harder as our cup winners/2nd place will have one fewer qualifying round to gain points.

Remember you get 1pt bonus for reaching the QFs, SF, and Final. So it may be doabale, but very very unlikely

So for Scotland to finish 12th we would need:
 

 

 

 

 

Spoiler

Celtic WIN vs Copenhagen - Last 32 - 2pts
Rangers WIN vs SC Braga -  Last 32 - 2pts
Rangers Win vs Last 16 opponent - 2pts
Celtic win vs Last 16 opponent - 2pts
Celtic win vs Last 16 opponent - 2pts
Rangers draw vs Last 16 opponent - 1pt
Celtic QF BONUS - 1pt
Rangers QF Bonus - 1pts
Celtic win vs QF Opponent - 2pts
Rangers win vs QF opponent - 2pts
Celtic draw vs QF opponent - 1pts
Rangers defeat - 0pts
Celtic SF Bonus - 1pts
Celtic draw vs SF opponent - 1pt
Celtic loss vs SF opponent - 0pts.

Unlikely, but not impossible, basically need Celtic to reach the Semis and Rangers the Quarters.

 

[Ginaro]

5 minutes ago, craigkillie said:

40 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

For this season? Assuming Salzburg and Linz don't score points next week, we'd need to score 20 points, which is 10 wins, to overtake Austria.
Not going to happen - but come July we will begin the qualifiers in 12th place: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2021.html So it'll be a case of whether we can continue to do as well as this season, will be harder as our cup winners/2nd place will have one fewer qualifying round to gain points.

To be fair, that could very easily be offset by whoever qualifies being not quite so inept as we were.

Yes and there's a good chance all three EL teams would be seeded in QR2 which would avoid the situation of being drawn against the likes of Partizan at that stage.

Rangers might also be seeded for all four qualifying rounds but could do with a win or two more to be sure.

[craigkillie]

10 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Yes and there's a good chance all three EL teams would be seeded in QR2 which would avoid the situation of being drawn against the likes of Partizan at that stage.

Rangers might also be seeded for all four qualifying rounds but could do with a win or two more to be sure.

Rangers will only play 3 qualifying rounds most likely.

[tarapoa]

14 hours ago, bennett said:

Aberdeen will still screw it up tho...

For McInnes' six campaigns, we have gone out when we were seeded to go out three times, and a round further than our seeding three times.

Conclusion - whilst we have not (grits teeth) pulled up trees like Gerrard's Sevco - look elsewhere for clubs that have done the real damage to the coefficient over the years. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by tarapoa

[Flybhoy]

Interesting wee thread this explaining the ramifications, as well as the positives and negatives about the likely leap up the coefficient table for Scottish football. 

[edinabear]

Sevco saving Scottish football again