Coefficientwatch

[GordonS]

11 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

What I'm trying to say is that there's little point in pretending that Scottish clubs could ever prosper on the European stage as it's now configured.   

 

I wasn't doing that.

[Mordecai]

Aberdeen would have been a top seed as the league champions, and I think Dundee Utd's ranking (8th) would have been high enough for them to be a top seed too.

The top seeds are currently reserved for the champions of the top 6 leagues and the 2 European trophy holders. Dundee United would almost certainly be in pot 2 though.

[TavTastic]

2 wins away from finishing above the Czechs.

[jagfox]

On 11/12/2019 at 19:54, GordonS said:

Atalanta's win means the last 16 of the CL will be made up of clubs from the big 5 nations.

Diverse.

Atalanta have scooped something like £36million for progressing in the ECL. Their annual wage bill is apparently around £35million.  

[GordonS]

The top seeds are currently reserved for the champions of the top 6 leagues and the 2 European trophy holders. Dundee United would almost certainly be in pot 2 though.

I thought it was the top 6 leagues and then the next 2 highest ranked teams. My mistake.

[Ginaro]

We've dropped to 16th after tonight's results, Cyprus narrowly ahead. However they only have one unseeded team and the Czechs with no teams are only 1.5 wins in front. Greece are 2.5 wins behind and also unseeded, so it will be a crucial draw on Monday.

[10menwent2mow]

15/32 in the Europa knockout from the top 6, so that's 31/48 places from the same 6 leagues. And 25/48 coming from the top 4.

Can be argued that while yes the new competition will increase access to the Diddy nations, will it be of any use, because teams from the big countries will still have access. Eg Wolves would've been in the new competition.

Atalanta's win means the last 16 of the CL will be made up of clubs from the big 5 nations.

Diverse.

[GordonS]

2 hours ago, 10menwent2mow said:

15/32 in the Europa knockout from the top 6, so that's 31/48 places from the same 6 leagues. And 25/48 coming from the top 4.

Can be argued that while yes the new competition will increase access to the Diddy nations, will it be of any use, because teams from the big countries will still have access. Eg Wolves would've been in the new competition.

More than half of the clubs playing European football after Christmas are from just 4 countries? That's nuts.

[wastecoatwilly]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

More than half of the clubs playing European football after Christmas are from just 4 countries? That's nuts.

It should serve up a few tasty ties given teams from the same association can't play each other.
It's a surprise to see all the Russians are out. 
Having nearly 20 points between the 2nd and 3rd countries also paints a picture.
 

#		country	15/16	16/17	17/18	18/19	19/20	ranking	teams
1		Spain	23.928	20.142	19.714	19.571	14.357	97.712	7/ 7
2		England	14.250	14.928	20.071	22.642	14.571	86.462	7/ 7
3		Germany	16.428	14.571	9.857	15.214	12.428	68.498	6/ 7
4		Italy	11.500	14.250	17.333	12.642	10.785	66.510	5/ 7
5		France	11.083	14.416	11.500	10.583	8.500	56.082	2/ 6
6		Portugal	10.500	8.083	9.666	10.900	9.700	48.849	4/ 5
7		Russia	11.500	9.200	12.600	7.583	4.666	45.549	6
8		Belgium	7.400	12.500	2.600	7.800	7.200	37.500	2/ 5
9		Netherlands	5.750	9.100	2.900	8.600	8.800	35.150	2/ 5
10		Ukraine	9.800	5.500	8.000	5.600	4.600	33.500	1/ 5
11		Turkey	6.600	9.700	6.800	5.500	4.200	32.800	1/ 5
12		Austria	3.800	7.375	9.750	6.200	5.000	32.125	2/ 5
13		Denmark	5.500	8.500	5.250	4.875	3.375	27.500	1/ 4
14		Czech Republic	7.300	5.500	5.500	6.500	2.500	27.300	5
15		Cyprus	3.000	5.500	7.000	6.125	5.125	26.750	1/ 4
16		Scotland	3.000	4.375	4.000	6.750	8.500	26.625	2/ 4
17		Greece	5.400	5.800	5.100	5.100	4.300	25.700	1/ 5
18		Serbia	4.250	2.875	6.375	6.000	6.000	25.500	4
19		Croatia	4.500	5.125	5.125	5.750	4.375	24.875	4
20		Switzerland	5.300	4.300	6.500	3.900	4.400	24.400	1/ 5
21		Sweden	4.750	2.750	5.375	4.125	5.750	22.750	1/ 4
22		Norway	7.250	1.375	4.000	5.375	3.750	21.750	4
23		Israel	2.250	6.750	5.625	2.625	2.375	19.625	4
24		Kazakhstan	4.625	2.750	4.250	4.250	3.375	19.250	4
25		Belarus	5.125	3.000	3.250	5.000	2.500	18.875	4
26		Azerbaijan	4.375	4.250	4.375	2.375	3.375	18.750	4
27		Bulgaria	1.000	4.250	4.000	4.000	4.125	17.375	1/ 4
28		Poland	5.500	3.875	2.875	2.250	2.125	16.625	4
29		Romania	2.250	3.300	2.900	2.375	5.375	16.200	1/ 4

Edited December 13, 2019 by wastecoatwilly

[Antony]

If we get an extra spot in Europe, how will it be allocated? Just to the League or will it be given to the League Cup instead like it used to? Could it be the runners up of the Scottish Cup, if the winners have already qualified?

[Ray Patterson]

24 minutes ago, Antony said:

If we get an extra spot in Europe, how will it be allocated? Just to the League or will it be given to the League Cup instead like it used to? Could it be the runners up of the Scottish Cup, if the winners have already qualified?

It's for the SPFL to decide.

Will almost certainly (99% chance) be given to the league. Not a chance it will be given to Cup Runners-Up as UEFA discontinued that rule about 10 years ago,
 

[FairWeatherFan]

6 hours ago, Antony said:

If we get an extra spot in Europe, how will it be allocated? Just to the League or will it be given to the League Cup instead like it used to? Could it be the runners up of the Scottish Cup, if the winners have already qualified?

Scotland has had 5 spots before and they just go to league standings and Scottish Cup winner. The runner up rule stopped years ago.

A 5th spot does impact the League Cup however. Right now the 4 teams in Europe are given a bye to the 2nd Round with 40 teams contesting the group stage. That format has to be reviewed.

[thepundit]

4 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

A 5th spot does impact the League Cup however. Right now the 4 teams in Europe are given a bye to the 2nd Round with 40 teams contesting the group stage. That format has to be reviewed.

It would not surprise me if this was never even considered by the SPFL.

[Ginaro]

5 hours ago, thepundit said:

It would not surprise me if this was never even considered by the SPFL.

I'm sure it has been considered but since we'll know a year in advance how many teams will be in Europe then even if not they have plenty time to plan for that scenario.

10 hours ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Scotland has had 5 spots before and they just go to league standings and Scottish Cup winner. The runner up rule stopped years ago.

A 5th spot does impact the League Cup however. Right now the 4 teams in Europe are given a bye to the 2nd Round with 40 teams contesting the group stage. That format has to be reviewed.

Could just go with the same group format (have 2nd in HL/LL play-off to fill the gap) but only the top three group runners-up qualify for the knockout stage.

Edited January 26, 2020 by Ginaro

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

I'm sure it has been considered but since we'll know a year in advance how many teams will be in Europe then even if not they have plenty time to plan for that scenario.

Could just go with the same group format (have 2nd in HL/LL play-off to fill the gap) but only the top three group runners-up qualify for the knockout stage.

That's something I had considered. Especially after the chatter around a LL West / LL East split. As you could give the 3 Tier 5 champions entry that way.

We'll see how popular the group stages are with the clubs.

[Antony]

With an extra European spot, could they instead have a European play-off similar to Netherlands or Northern Ireland. This would especially give the top teams in the bottom 6 something to play for. So 6th could play 7th and the winner plays 5th for a European spot. If the Scottish Cup winners take the European berth you could either just cancel the Europa playoffs or have it incorporate 4 teams. 

After the split, the top teams in the bottom 6, usually have nothing to play for as they are safe from relegation and obviously can't move further up the table. It would make finishing top of the bottom 6 important and give a focus at the end of season, getting big crowds for a game that feels like a cup final or semi with a European spot riding on it. 

[craigkillie]

On 26/01/2020 at 07:13, FairWeatherFan said:

Scotland has had 5 spots before and they just go to league standings and Scottish Cup winner. The runner up rule stopped years ago.

A 5th spot does impact the League Cup however. Right now the 4 teams in Europe are given a bye to the 2nd Round with 40 teams contesting the group stage. That format has to be reviewed.

The easiest thing to do would be to add an extra team to the group stage, probably 2nd in the HL or LL, maybe based on which league's champions won the play-off. They could then just let three group runners-up rather than four into R2.

[The Master]

On 26/01/2020 at 00:40, Antony said:

If we get an extra spot in Europe, how will it be allocated? Just to the League or will it be given to the League Cup instead like it used to? Could it be the runners up of the Scottish Cup, if the winners have already qualified?

While it’s academic, because the SPFL would never entertain the idea, I’m not sure UEFA would sanction a place going to the League Cup, because of the bonus point system in the group stage. 

[Ray Patterson]

On 27/01/2020 at 21:29, The Master said:

While it’s academic, because the SPFL would never entertain the idea, I’m not sure UEFA would sanction a place going to the League Cup, because of the bonus point system in the group stage. 

Hmmm I think UEFA are quite supportive of the SPFL trying to innovate with the Challenge Cup with cross-border competition; so I would believe they would be content with the League Cup gaining a European place.

[Ginaro]

Don't think that UEFA wouldn't sanction it because of the bonus points system, but it's likely to be won by a side already qualified for Europe so the place will go to 5th anyway.

And of the 10 countries who have a league cup, only two - England and France - reward the winners with a Europa League place, and France are disbanding their tournament next season anyway.