Buckets Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 8 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Who gets "the money that comes with it"? Third place having a European group stage spot means the team that finishes 3rd gets the money that comes with it. Maybe didn't word it clearly but i was just pointing out the obvious. Some Hearts fans have said it could be worth around 7 or 8 million to them based on ticket sales, prize money and TV money. And if they get third place for a few years in a row that can add up to serious money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 8 hours ago, BFTD said: Trickle-down economics has been a massive success, m9. Do keep up. Yes, to read this thread, you'd really think it has. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLichtie86 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Yip, no debate over who's being the dick.Glad you have finally realised what you are. So proud of you. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckets Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 28 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: Yes, to read this thread, you'd really think it has. Hearts getting 7 or 8 million is not trickle down. It would be be from 4 sold out home games and the 3 million they get just from being in the group stages. They'll be in Pot 3 so if they win 2 games that's another million. Add TV money and then all the other benefits and it's a very good sum of money. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 (edited) 45 minutes ago, Buckets said: Hearts getting 7 or 8 million is not trickle down. It would be be from 4 sold out home games and the 3 million they get just from being in the group stages. They'll be in Pot 3 so if they win 2 games that's another million. Add TV money and then all the other benefits and it's a very good sum of money. The opportunity to earn it would only have arrived via those higher up our food chain bagging £20-30m, so it would indeed be an example of trickle down. Those beneath them would of course become very much worse off in relative terms, as would Hearts themselves, in relation to their already much stronger rivals. When the entire idea is that sides compete with each other using resources that cost money, it's utterly absurd that people would welcome it. Edited March 29, 2022 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger29 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 Hearts getting 7 or 8 million is not trickle down. It would be be from 4 sold out home games and the 3 million they get just from being in the group stages. They'll be in Pot 3 so if they win 2 games that's another million. Add TV money and then all the other benefits and it's a very good sum of money. Pot 4 is more likely for any (non old firm) Scottish team that reaches the conference league.Using last years pot values can be misleading due to the changing competitions, calculation methods, clubs etc. Something like this, which uses the current league position of teams across Europe, is more informative imo:https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=FB41E3B5AA1A44FE!4317&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!ABqeGDbe7-QwpCYI'd be very surprised if Hearts (for example) got more than 3/4pts. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 47 minutes ago, charger29 said: Pot 4 is more likely for any (non old firm) Scottish team that reaches the conference league. Using last years pot values can be misleading due to the changing competitions, calculation methods, clubs etc. Something like this, which uses the current league position of teams across Europe, is more informative imo: https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=FB41E3B5AA1A44FE!4317&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!ABqeGDbe7-QwpCY I'd be very surprised if Hearts (for example) got more than 3/4pts. And the problem with comparing to last season is that the pot 4 clubs (e.g. Lincoln Red Imps with 5.750) have all increased their coefficient by at least 2.50 points, so Hearts would be seeded below them - unless Rangers increased the country coefficient minimum by getting through to the next round. Saying that, it's likely a few of the unseeded clubs will get through in the play-off round to bump Hearts closer to pot 3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger29 Posted March 29, 2022 Share Posted March 29, 2022 And the problem with comparing to last season is that the pot 4 clubs (e.g. Lincoln Red Imps with 5.750) have all increased their coefficient by at least 2.50 points, so Hearts would be seeded below them - unless Rangers increased the country coefficient minimum by getting through to the next round. Saying that, it's likely a few of the unseeded clubs will get through in the play-off round to bump Hearts closer to pot 3.The opposite could happen with the higher seeded teams in the earlier rounds of CL/EL falling down as well. Not sure how likely that is to counteract what you said though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat(The most tip top) Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 And the problem with comparing to last season is that the pot 4 clubs (e.g. Lincoln Red Imps with 5.750) have all increased their coefficient by at least 2.50 points, so Hearts would be seeded below them - unless Rangers increased the country coefficient minimum by getting through to the next round. Saying that, it's likely a few of the unseeded clubs will get through in the play-off round to bump Hearts closer to pot 3.Good pointAlthough if UEFA are going to insist on throwing further lumps of cash around which will distort the domestic game further then it’s just as well they waited for a point when Aberdeen are mediocre and Hearts are quite good.It could have been so much worse 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckets Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 On 29/03/2022 at 18:48, charger29 said: Pot 4 is more likely for any (non old firm) Scottish team that reaches the conference league. Using last years pot values can be misleading due to the changing competitions, calculation methods, clubs etc. Something like this, which uses the current league position of teams across Europe, is more informative imo: https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx?resid=FB41E3B5AA1A44FE!4317&ithint=file%2cxlsx&authkey=!ABqeGDbe7-QwpCY I'd be very surprised if Hearts (for example) got more than 3/4pts. The link you sent just assumes the teams with the most coefficient points goes through. Of course if that was to happen then Hearts would be pot 4 but teams like The New Saints or Lincoln Red Imps have very high coefficients compared to their actual quality. Maybe Hearts will be pot 4 because of the other reasons, I was just looking at this year where they would have been ranked as one of the highest seeds in Pot 3. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckets Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) On 29/03/2022 at 18:01, Monkey Tennis said: The opportunity to earn it would only have arrived via those higher up our food chain bagging £20-30m, so it would indeed be an example of trickle down. Those beneath them would of course become very much worse off in relative terms, as would Hearts themselves, in relation to their already much stronger rivals. When the entire idea is that sides compete with each other using resources that cost money, it's utterly absurd that people would welcome it. Why does that need to be the case? Scotland won't maintain an automatic Champions League place and it will likely get harder for smaller nations to qualify for the CL with format changes. But if the league stays above 12/13th then it keeps that third group spot without Champions league football for the league winner. Celtic and Rangers will always be good enough to get to the Europa League groups regardless of coefficient because they can make it through the qualifiers. The coefficient is much more important to the other teams because it can guarantee a group stage place. So it's either just Celtic and Rangers in the groups or Celtic, Rangers and 1 other team. I'd go for the second option but I admit that I don't really care how much richer Celtic and Rangers are anyway. With or without the Champions League, no one is competing with them when they have 2 of the highest attendances in Europe. A European run every year is more exciting than a far flung fantasy of challenging the Old Firm or closing the gap imo. Edited March 31, 2022 by Buckets 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 31 minutes ago, Buckets said: Celtic and Rangers will always be good enough to get to the Europa League groups regardless of coefficient because they can make it through the qualifiers. The coefficient is much more important to the other teams because it can guarantee a group stage place. So it's either just Celtic and Rangers in the groups or Celtic, Rangers and 1 other team. I'd go for the second option but I admit that I don't really care how much richer Celtic and Rangers are anyway. With or without the Champions League, no one is competing with them when they have 2 of the highest attendances in Europe. A European run every year is more exciting than a far flung fantasy of challenging the Old Firm or closing the gap imo. Yet another run-out for the frankly weird argument that says giving clubs tens of millions of pounds, can't make a difference in the context of the Scottish game. It's staggeringly stupid. Of course they'd be bigger and stronger anyway, but the idea that such income is immaterial, is utterly senseless. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckets Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 7 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said: Yet another run-out for the frankly weird argument that says giving clubs tens of millions of pounds, can't make a difference in the context of the Scottish game. It's staggeringly stupid. Of course they'd be bigger and stronger anyway, but the idea that such income is immaterial, is utterly senseless. I'm sure it does make a difference to them but it's of no real interest to me whether the gap between 2nd and 3rd is 20 points or 30 points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedLichtie86 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 I'm sure it does make a difference to them but it's of no real interest to me whether the gap between 2nd and 3rd is 20 points or 30 points. It is best not to engage with MT. He is one of those strange folk that wants all Scottish clubs to be knocked out of europe each season.Not even sure what will even make him happy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Buckets said: I'm sure it does make a difference to them but it's of no real interest to me whether the gap between 2nd and 3rd is 20 points or 30 points. And their advantages being yet greater, will have no impact in Cups, or on the likelihood of them losing more league games? Interesting theory. Lots of knowing thy place in this thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, RedLichtie86 said: It is best not to engage with MT. He is one of those strange folk that wants all Scottish clubs to be knocked out of europe each season. Not even sure what will even make him happy. No I don't. That last sentence needs more evens. Edited March 31, 2022 by Monkey Tennis 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckets Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 35 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said: And their advantages being yet greater, will have no impact in Cups, or on the likelihood of them losing more league games? Interesting theory. Lots of knowing thy place in this thread. Like I said how many league games they lose is of no interest to me because they won't be caught anyway. I think guaranteeing 8 European games every season and the money that comes with it is worth the trade off, but its just down to opinion. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Buckets said: Like I said how many league games they lose is of no interest to me because they won't be caught anyway. I think guaranteeing 8 European games every season and the money that comes with it is worth the trade off, but its just down to opinion. Fair enough. The Cup thing surely carries some weight though. No? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenrobell Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 The opportunity to earn it would only have arrived via those higher up our food chain bagging £20-30m, so it would indeed be an example of trickle down. Those beneath them would of course become very much worse off in relative terms, as would Hearts themselves, in relation to their already much stronger rivals. When the entire idea is that sides compete with each other using resources that cost money, it's utterly absurd that people would welcome it.What team is your allegiance with out of curiosity 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Tennis Posted April 6, 2022 Share Posted April 6, 2022 9 hours ago, kenrobell said: What team is your allegiance with out of curiosity Queen of the South. I didn't think I'd been keeping it secret. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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