Coefficientwatch

[JamesM82]

15 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

30 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

The excuse is that nine of those eleven clubs are only this far in the Europa League because they've already been papped out of Europe's premier tournament. Scotland only had one club embarrass themselves in such a way and it wasn't Aberdeen or Hibs.

And thats because UEFA changed the format of the Europa League so that teams eliminated from the Champions League now only play against fellow eliminated teams rather than facing league placed teams from England, Spain, France, Italy etc.

Looks like UEFA have done that as a consolation for making it harder to get into the CL groups.

"Stop moaning lads, here's a shootie-in way of getting into the EL groups if/when you muck up the (harder) CL qualifying", or some such.

[realmadrid]

I like this new format, going into the final week of the proper European football for this season and a team form Luxemburg stands a good chance of making the group stages, That's progress in my view.

[bendan]

23 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

Looks like UEFA have done that as a consolation for making it harder to get into the CL groups.

"Stop moaning lads, here's a shootie-in way of getting into the EL groups if/when you muck up the (harder) CL qualifying", or some such.

I don't think that's so bad. Champions should be getting preferential treatment. The champion of the lower ranked countries gets a shot at the CL, and if (when) they fail, they have an easier run at the EL. I'd say there's an argument that  if the champions of countries like Scotland/Serbia/Sweden/Norway etc (i.e. in the 15 to 25 range of ranked countries) lose in the CL qualifying, they should get an automatic group place in the EL. But there aren't enough places for every country to get one, so there has to be some who still need to qualify.

Edited August 24, 2018 by bendan

[wastecoatwilly]

38 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

Celtic drawing with Suduva was easily the worst result of any Scottish club in Europe this season (so far).

Only if celtic go out,if not then celtic keep add points to the coefficient.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

31 minutes ago, realmadrid said:

I like this new format, going into the final week of the proper European football for this season and a team form Luxemburg stands a good chance of making the group stages, That's progress in my view.

Probably a megawhoosh here, but I'm the same! Completely switch off from European football after the qualifiers. It's an absolute sick joke of a thing now. I'll keep an eye out for the Celtic/Sevco adventures should they qualify, admittedly.

[JamesM82]

42 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Only if celtic go out,if not then celtic keep add points to the coefficient.

Fine, but Celtic only drawing with a Lithuanian team is "dropped points" in coefficient terms. Like losing the first leg to Red Imps.

[wastecoatwilly]

47 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

Fine, but Celtic only drawing with a Lithuanian team is "dropped points" in coefficient terms. Like losing the first leg to Red Imps.

I think getting into the champions league group stages made up for that.

[JamesM82]

1 hour ago, bendan said:

I don't think that's so bad. Champions should be getting preferential treatment. The champion of the lower ranked countries gets a shot at the CL, and if (when) they fail, they have an easier run at the EL. I'd say there's an argument that  if the champions of countries like Scotland/Serbia/Sweden/Norway etc (i.e. in the 15 to 25 range of ranked countries) lose in the CL qualifying, they should get an automatic group place in the EL. But there aren't enough places for every country to get one, so there has to be some who still need to qualify.

They could free up more places (i.e. add four more EL groups) if they junked the parachute for the teams that finish third in the CL groups.

[wastecoatwilly]

2 hours ago, DiegoDiego said:

5 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

When you have teams from Luxembourg,Macedonia,Moldova,Sweden,Romania,Lithuania,Slovenia,Norway,Slovakia, and Serbia at this stage in the competition there is no excuse.

The excuse is that nine of those eleven clubs are only this far in the Europa League because they've already been papped out of Europe's premier tournament. Scotland only had one club embarrass themselves in such a way and it wasn't Aberdeen or Hibs.

Instead of celtic taking up the slack it would be good for a change for the rest of the teams in scotland to win 4 games thats all just 4 games,thats all i ask for.

[bendan]

58 minutes ago, JamesM82 said:

They could free up more places (i.e. add four more EL groups) if they junked the parachute for the teams that finish third in the CL groups.

True. That's the most irritating (and credibility-destroying) thing about the EL. Teams that have already earned huge money in the CL getting a completely undeserved post-Christmas EL chance.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

I was looking at Kassies' site last night. 

I noted that Fenerbace, Spartak Moscow and another two teams I think were knocked out in CL Q3. I expected them to appear in EL Q4 but they appear to have been boosted right into the EL groups!

Shurely shome mishtake?

[bennett]

2 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Instead of celtic taking up the slack it would be good for a change for the rest of the teams in scotland to win 4 games thats all just 4 games,thats all i ask for.

Going into the qualifying rounds so early doesn't do our clubs any favours, it's a big ask for all of us to make the group stages.

If we get to the group stages then we need to start getting some wins.

[realmadrid]

33 minutes ago, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I was looking at Kassies' site last night. 

I noted that Fenerbace, Spartak Moscow and another two teams I think were knocked out in CL Q3. I expected them to appear in EL Q4 but they appear to have been boosted right into the EL groups!

Shurely shome mishtake?

The new system guarantees group stage football of some sort for the majority of the teams that qualify via the non champions path in the Championship league. In a way it seems very unfair but some teams in the past qualified for the group stage automatically by finishing 3rd in Holland yet 2nd could mean lots of qualifiers and no group stage football. 

[DiegoDiego]

Why even pretend they're different competitions? It's making the Europa League even more of a joke. If Fenerbahçe aren't good enough to beat a Rangers or Molde over two legs then they don't deserve group stage football (also they're a horrid club).
Or should we follow UEFA's lead and add Hamilton, Dundee, Killie et al to the Challenge Cup draw?

[SlipperyP]

Real Madrid 'B' v Celtic first qualifying round of the Champions League, this is what we want to see

[HibeeJibee]

On ‎24‎/‎08‎/‎2018 at 19:02, Ranaldo Bairn said:

I was looking at Kassies' site last night. 

I noted that Fenerbace, Spartak Moscow and another two teams I think were knocked out in CL Q3. I expected them to appear in EL Q4 but they appear to have been boosted right into the EL groups!

Shurely shome mishtake?

As you say all 4 teams who lose in QR3 of CL non-champions path go straight into EL groupstage, instead of being added to EL non-champions path at QR4.

If they'd been so added - as happens in all the rest of the competition - there would've been 2 more groupstage slots for actual EL entrants.

It simply ensures yet more "big nations" presence.

[Ranaldo Bairn]

How utterly depressing.

[MEADOWXI]

The state of the competitions is beyond a joke.

UEFA has 55 members, Spain are No1 and Kosovo are No55 in rankings.

Champions League

79 teams enter, The group stages have 32 teams but of these 26 are already allocated group slots, meaning that the other 53 teams are chasing the last 6 spots, and of the 26 automatic qualifiers 21 of these come from only 6 countries (Spain, Germany, England, Italy, France & Russia)

Europa League

213 teams enter + all 47 teams that get knocked out of the Champions League get a second go in the Europa League, Lincoln Red Imps after getting knocked out of the Champions League Prelim Rd were then knocked out of the Europa League 2nd Qualifying Rd by The New Saints.

All these teams are chasing the 48 Group places, but again 17 of these are pre-allocated meaning 242 teams are chasing 31 group places*. Again of the 17 automatic places 11 of these are for the top 6 countries.

* As earlier posts 4 3rd Rd Champions League losers automatically get group slots.

These top 6 country entries don't even take into account tems like Burnley, Atalanta, Bordeaux, Sevilla etc that are in the qualifiers and from these countries.

 

If you look at the figues combined of 80 group places with only 37 places available for 248 teams to fight over as the top  44 places are automatic and 32 of those, 40% , are a in the hands of Spain, Germany, England, Italy, France and Russia. That is 6 of the 55 members or 10.9% of UEFA

It is nothing about football and all about the same big teams playing the same big teams every season for lots of money.

 

Edited August 28, 2018 by MEADOWXI
Editing due to stupid 32/48 error

[realmadrid]

47 minutes ago, MEADOWXI said:

The state of the competitions is beyond a joke.

UEFA has 55 members, Spain are No1 and Kosovo are No55 in rankings.

Champions League

79 teams enter, The group stages have 32 teams but of these 26 are already allocated group slots, meaning that the other 53 teams are chasing the last 6 spots, and of the 26 automatic qualifiers 21 of these come from only 6 countries (Spain, Germany, England, Italy, France & Russia)

Europa League

213 teams enter + all 47 teams that get knocked out of the Champions League get a second go in the Europa League, Lincoln Red Imps after getting knocked out of the Champions League Prelim Rd were then knocked out of the Europa League 2nd Qualifying Rd by The New Saints.

All these teams are chasing the 32 Group places, but again 18 of these are pre-allocated meaning 242 teams are chasing 10 group places*. Again of the 18 automatic places 11 of these are for the top 6 countries.

* As earlier posts 4 3rd Rd Champions League losers automatically get group slots.

These top 6 country entries don't even take into account tems like Burnley, Atalanta, Bordeaux, Sevilla etc that are in the qualifiers and from these countries.

 

If you look at the figues combined of 64 group places with only 20 places available for 248 teams to fight over as the top  44 places are automatic and 32 of those, 50% , are a in the hands of Spain, Germany, England, Italy, France and Russia. That is 6 of the 55 members or 10.9% of UEFA

It is nothing about football and all about the same big teams playing the same big teams every season for lots of money.

 

There are 48 teams in the Europa league

17 direct places allocated

13 through the qualification  path (winners of the play off round) - where Rangers and Burnley are

8 winners of the champions play off round ties (dropped out of the champions league into Europe league) - Where Celtic are

plus the losers of the champions league qualify as below

2 from the non champions path in the champions league play off round 

4 from the champions path in the champions league play off round

4 from the non champions path in the champions league round 3

 

Edited August 27, 2018 by realmadrid

[Mordecai]

There are 48 teams in the Europa League group stage.

 

ETA: beaten to it. I agree with the sentiment though.