Coefficientwatch

[Ross.]

31 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

PS. Does getting a bye in a couple of rounds really represent "doing better" anyway?

Europa League group stage qualification for a Scottish side is now worth something in the region of £6m from the prize pot and TV market pool alone. That excludes any bonuses for points, and the additional turnover from extra games. Even if you don't give a f*ck about the Scottish league, the money to be made means it is no longer as small time as many still seem to think it is. For anyone other than Celtic, that would be a significant boost to turnover.

Getting a bye in a couple of the early rounds makes that far more achievable.

 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Europa League group stage qualification for a Scottish side is now worth something in the region of £6m from the prize pot and TV market pool alone. That excludes any bonuses for points, and the additional turnover from extra games. Even if you don't give a f*ck about the Scottish league, the money to be made means it is no longer as small time as many still seem to think it is. For anyone other than Celtic, that would be a significant boost to turnover.

Getting a bye in a couple of the early rounds makes that far more achievable.

 

That would offer more of this distortion I don't like.

[falkirkthebigclub]

3 minutes ago, Ross. said:

Europa League group stage qualification for a Scottish side is now worth something in the region of £6m from the prize pot and TV market pool alone. That excludes any bonuses for points, and the additional turnover from extra games. Even if you don't give a f*ck about the Scottish league, the money to be made means it is no longer as small time as many still seem to think it is. For anyone other than Celtic, that would be a significant boost to turnover.

Getting a bye in a couple of the early rounds makes that far more achievable.

 

Plus a top 15 ranking would see our 3rd best gain direct entry to the Europa group stages. Pretty much the only chance a Scottish provincial club has of ever scooping the better part of £10 million.

[Monkey Tennis]

19 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Yes, because it would mean clubs would of won more games/ties games over a number of years than they have been doing.

 

There's your "prize".  You clearly see that kind of progress as  a self fulfilling badge.

[Monkey Tennis]

2 minutes ago, badgerthewitness said:

Plus a top 15 ranking would see our 3rd best gain direct entry to the Europa group stages. Pretty much the only chance a Scottish provincial club has of ever scooping the better part of £10 million.

Yes, that would be great for ensuring a more level domestic playing field.

[falkirkthebigclub]

2 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That would offer more of this distortion I don't like.

I believe the distortion in Scottish football existed long before UEFA prize money became a factor. We must consider the 'trickle down' benefits of Celtic having too much money. See: Johnny Hayes & £1m

[Monkey Tennis]

Just now, badgerthewitness said:

I believe the distortion in Scottish football existed long before UEFA prize money became a factor. We must consider the 'trickle down' benefits of Celtic having too much money. See: Johnny Hayes & £1m

Of course it existed beforehand, but I think a great deal of evidence suggests it's got very significantly worse since.  

Personally, I don't clap my hands when it's further exacerbated, but hey, we're all different.

[RedLichtie86]

Over the next few years that our teams play in the Q1 of CL and EL, if we can get as close to maximum points, it will help boost us up the table when previous years points drop off the 5 year calculation.

Average points over past 4 seasons has been 3.8375.

We need to be aiming for at least 5.625 to get in or around 15th place which earns 2 champions league qualifying places. But anything around 4.6 points per year will help in regards to where teams enter Euro competitions at.

With the 1.375 of a max 1.5 we earned in Q1, we have done a great job. Another 1.5 out of 2 would be ideal in the Q2. But we will earn to closer to 1.

[falkirkthebigclub]

21 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Yes, that would be great for ensuring a more level domestic playing field.

It certainly would if they directed some of that cash by way of our respective clubs. As things stand, our young talent heads south & tends to become lost in the English system. I'd love to have seen players like Jay Fulton move to a Scottish Premiership club, develop his talent & see European action instead of having Swansea farm him out on loan for a few seasons.

Edited to elaborate: The player, being given more opportunity to develop at a upper Premiership club, would presumably be worth more and the smaller club would benefit from a sell on/development fee or add-ons.

Edited July 20, 2018 by badgerthewitness

[Ross.]

9 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

That would offer more of this distortion I don't like.

Depends on who qualifies and how they spend their extra money. Rangers/Aberdeen/Hearts/Hibs qualifying wouldn't really change too much, in terms of resources they already appear to have far more than anyone else in the domestic game, it would maybe just change the order of their league positions. It would also give them scope for getting closer to Celtic.

[FairWeatherFan]

16 minutes ago, badgerthewitness said:

Plus a top 15 ranking would see our 3rd best gain direct entry to the Europa group stages. Pretty much the only chance a Scottish provincial club has of ever scooping the better part of £10 million.

Looks like you need to be Top 12 to have a automatic entry into the Europa League group stage.

[falkirkthebigclub]

1 minute ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Looks like you need to be Top 12 to have a automatic entry into the Europa League group stage.

Typo. Have a vert

[Monkey Tennis]

12 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

We need to be aiming for at least 5.625 to get in or around 15th place which earns 2 champions league qualifying places. 

I can genuinely think of nothing worse for our game than a return to those days.

[FairWeatherFan]

17 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

There's your "prize".  You clearly see that kind of progress as  a self fulfilling badge.

Win more games = Win more ties = Play more games = More prize money

                                                                                                                       = More money through the gate & hopefully interest generated for domestic games

It's certainly better than being papped out.

[RedLichtie86]

I can genuinely think of nothing worse for our game than a return to those days.

Remember thats not automatic qualification places.

Just a greater chance of having at least 1 team in a group stage earning points for the nation. Whether it be in CL or EL.

And if 1 team makes the CL then there is a payment to each prem club. Even if that is £100k its more than welcome to each club.

But if its EL they have a chance to progress much further than in CL.

[falkirkthebigclub]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I can genuinely think of nothing worse for our game than a return to those days.

You can think of nothing worse than the two cheeks running up debt to the tune of scores of millions in vain attempts to compete with the elite, while the rest of us giggle almost to the point of combustion as they fail to make any impact on the European stage? 

[Monkey Tennis]

16 minutes ago, badgerthewitness said:

You can think of nothing worse than the two cheeks running up debt to the tune of scores of millions in vain attempts to compete with the elite, while the rest of us giggle almost to the point of combustion as they fail to make any impact on the European stage? 

Yes, Celtic's debts are clearly crippling.

The idea of each potentially bringing in over £20m a season is indeed awful.  There wouldn't actually be an obligation on Rangers to drive themselves out of existence.  Most clubs with access to such wealth manage not to.

They would both move miles out of anyone else's reach and divide all the trophies between them.

[Monkey Tennis]

34 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

And if 1 team makes the CL then there is a payment to each prem club. Even if that is £100k its more than welcome to each club.

Jesus Lichtie, you really do buy the OF propaganda wholesale don't you?

Employ some critical faculties for Christ's sake.

If one or two clubs net upwards of £20m while others get £100k, then in real terms the latter batch of clubs have become very much poorer, given that they exist in an environment where the whole idea is that they compete with the luckier ones using resources that cost money.

[Monkey Tennis]

46 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Win more games = Win more ties = Play more games = More prize money

                                                                                                                       = More money through the gate & hopefully interest generated for domestic games

It's certainly better than being papped out.

Oh it's better for the given clubs, but that doesn't improve things in a wider sense.  

This coefficient business creates the illusion of this being something collective.  The reality is that European football is structured in such a way as to fly in the face of that.

[RedLichtie86]

Jesus Lichtie, you really do buy the OF propaganda wholesale don't you?
Employ some critical faculties for Christ's sake.
If one or two clubs net upwards of £20m while others get £100k, then in real terms the latter batch of clubs have become very much poorer, given that they exist in an environment where the whole idea is that they compete with the luckier ones using resources that cost money.

Why is it about the Old firm? Never realised it was a god given right that both of them would be the only teams that earn the CL qualifiers if we had 2 places. Shame on you for thinking like that and not thinking maybe another team can do that. If thats the case whats the point in football.

On back of my point, if the brand up here becomes more appealling due to teams playing in Europe more regular, then that can lead to an increase in Sponsorship, TV money, etc. With more players interested in playing for a Hearts, Aberdeen, Dundee, Motherwell if they are able to afford more in wages. And that in turn will improve the standard as less players will be lost to English League 1/2/National.

So more money injected into the game from Europe, Tv, Sponsorship, player sales etc will help bring the standard up and make clubs more attractive.