Ranaldo Bairn Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 No need to capitalise 'club'. We understand what you are referring to. It's an ethereal being with no legal existence, right? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGoon Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 That’s us above Ukraine. We’ll be doing very well to hold that though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d31 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 Going in the right direction now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 5 hours ago, Ranaldo Bairn said: No need to capitalise 'club'. We understand what you are referring to. It's an ethereal being with no legal existence, right? quote me next time you little bitch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanFan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 6 hours ago, G51 said: No. David Murray only once converted his loans into shares, in 2006 (I think). Murray had no need to convert loans into shares, because he already had majority control over the club with something like 80% of the shares. So the loans stayed as loans and were added to the balance sheet. When the Great Recession hit, the bank effectively took over the running of Murray's holding company MIH, and wanted these loans paid back during the second Smith era. HBOS had even less need for new shares than Murray did. The difference this time is the loans being converted into shares. This means Rangers have no debt, so such a scenario cannot take place. The other difference is instead of one majority shareholder who's vulnerable to shocks, the ownership is made up of several HNWI, spreading the cost and minimising the risk. Money is only being plowed into the Club until it reaches the same position as Celtic - where it needs to sell a player each year or reach the CL groups to break even. Once it does this, it will be self-sustainable. Had either COVID not hit or Morelos had been sold, there likely would have been no rights issue because there would be no need for one. There's an argument to be made that the Club currently is self sustainable and that the share issues are ultimately paying transfer fees, but realistically a club like Rangers is going to pay transfer fees to secure players. It's an investment. You just got another €1.5 million for the win today, so that should help. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 4 minutes ago, AmericanFan said: You just got another €1.5 million for the win today, so that should help. Thought it was €570,000 for a win mate? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 14 minutes ago, TheGoon said: That’s us above Ukraine. We’ll be doing very well to hold that though. Shakhtar are likely to get at least 3rd in their CL group, so either 5 bonus points for the CL last 16 or a better chance of results in the EL R32. Need Ferencvaros to beat Dynamo Kiev to 3rd in their CL group. Zorya Luhansk with 0 points so far but games against AEK Athens coming up. Still, extended the gap to Turkey and Denmark, who are struggling to pick up points, so 12th is becoming more secure. Austria in 10th are 5 wins away. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanFan Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 11 minutes ago, G51 said: Thought it was €570,000 for a win mate? Whoops, my bad. Well, that's still a good haul. €1.14 million in a week is solid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 6 minutes ago, AmericanFan said: Whoops, my bad. Well, that's still a good haul. €1.14 million in a week is solid. Aye, I wouldn’t mind that 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 (edited) 36 minutes ago, G51 said: quote me next time you little bitch It was literally the post under yours, although it definitely seems to have touched a nerve. Edited October 29, 2020 by Ranaldo Bairn 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranaldo Bairn Posted October 29, 2020 Share Posted October 29, 2020 On topic, good result for the Tic but could have been excellent. Rangers frankly astonishing Euro form continues. Fair play. The crunch will come with 5 teams: more than likely there will be a down swing, although being in the Conf should hopefully ensure a few good early points. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spring Onion Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 10 hours ago, G51 said: No. David Murray only once converted his loans into shares, in 2006 (I think). Murray had no need to convert loans into shares, because he already had majority control over the club with something like 80% of the shares. So the loans stayed as loans and were added to the balance sheet. When the Great Recession hit, the bank effectively took over the running of Murray's holding company MIH, and wanted these loans paid back during the second Smith era. HBOS had even less need for new shares than Murray did. The difference this time is the loans being converted into shares. This means Rangers have no debt, so such a scenario cannot take place. The other difference is instead of one majority shareholder who's vulnerable to shocks, the ownership is made up of several HNWI, spreading the cost and minimising the risk. Money is only being plowed into the Club until it reaches the same position as Celtic - where it needs to sell a player each year or reach the CL groups to break even. Once it does this, it will be self-sustainable. Had either COVID not hit or Morelos had been sold, there likely would have been no rights issue because there would be no need for one. There's an argument to be made that the Club currently is self sustainable and that the share issues are ultimately paying transfer fees, but realistically a club like Rangers is going to pay transfer fees to secure players. It's an investment. Do you think the fans groups are happy with their share values being diluted all the time with the extra shares being created to dissolve the debts being run up? After all it was ment to be a fan owned club but every season that ownership is getting further away? Or is it all about 10. Is that the be all and end all of the new club? 1 in a row is everything? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmericanFan Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 9 hours ago, G51 said: Aye, I wouldn’t mind that One could almost live in Edinburgh on that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 6 hours ago, Spring Onion said: Do you think the fans groups are happy with their share values being diluted all the time with the extra shares being created to dissolve the debts being run up? After all it was ment to be a fan owned club but every season that ownership is getting further away? Or is it all about 10. Is that the be all and end all of the new club? 1 in a row is everything? As a Club1872 member I can tell you my thoughts. The initial goal of C1872 was to get to 25%+1, so that we could veto special resolutions. 50%+1 was the next step. It's a long term process but yes, ideally C1872 would have been asked to participate in the share issues. But there is a huge amount of trust between the organisation and the fans who together hold a majority of the shares, so it's not a pressing issue. The long term goal continues. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinabear Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Well done Sevco. Again bringing pride back to the Scottish game -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 On 28/10/2020 at 07:52, G51 said: We don’t really have financial issues, outside of the same ones every club is experiencing with COVID. If we make a loss, then that is covered by the rich fans that own the club, who make soft loans that they convert into equity to ensure the club remains debt free. The Club is in more or less the same position as Celtic, with one key difference. Both clubs need to sell a player for a decent fee each year OR make the Champions League group stages in order to break even / be profitable. If Celtic don’t do that, then their losses are absorbed by their cash in the bank (€20m), if Rangers don’t do that then their losses are absorbed by the shareholder loans. What the CL group stages would allow us to do is invest some of that money into expanding the stadium and other investments, which would improve our revenue base. The gap between our revenue and Celtics is closing, but a year of CL money would likely close that gap completely. Surely the pockets of your rich fans are not bottomless ? -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ewan14 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 8 hours ago, edinabear said: Well done Sevco. Again bringing pride back to the Scottish game Persevere -1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G51 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 12 minutes ago, ewan14 said: Surely the pockets of your rich fans are not bottomless ? I'm sure they're not. But the vast majority of the funding has already been injected, so I'd consider it very unlikely that would be a problem now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ginaro Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 After tonight's performances it looks like the only way we'll remain in 11th is if Ukraine and Turkey's teams don't reach the knockout stages. However Shakhtar's big defeat to Gladbach means they are less certain to progress, and for Kiev it'll come down to their final game. Başakşehir's win v Man Utd gives them hope of finishing 3rd. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charger29 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Looking at the predicted seeding for next season again, the usual suspects have started to climb up their domestic tables now. Rangers & Celtic and currently unseeded for both the 3rd and 4th rounds of the CL. Both of them could squeeze into the 3rd round seeds but there's a low chance of that in the 4th round if Rangers end up winning the league.Assuming everything goes as expected with the TH and teams getting bumped up rounds etc., 3rd place/Cup Winners (Aberdeen) are pretty much guaranteed to be unseeded for the final round of the EL. If it is Aberdeen who take the spot and they lose in the EL final qualifying round they could be pot 3 for the Conf. League group stages. If Hibs or an unexpected SC winner took Aberdeen's position they'd be pot 4 in the group stages of the Conf. League.4th & 5th will be seeded for the 2nd round of the Conf. League, just below the seeding line in the 3rd round and have no chance of seeding in the 4th round.I suspect things will will stay roughly like this until the qualifying rounds next year. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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