Coefficientwatch

[Yoda8]

8 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

A  couple of difficulties here.

I was pleased to see Aberdeen beat Rangers to second place twice.  It didn't happen last year though, and won't this.  We know that no version of Rangers was in the division for Aberdeen's second places before that.  The duopoly is I'm afraid, back.

Now the latest Rangers didn't reach the top two by dint of European money.  They did so due largely to the might their gates grant them.  That's clearly blindingly obvious, but is apparently worth repeating for those who wish to pretend I'm saying the OF dominate things simply because of Europe.

Another leap is required by the belief that Rangers are again going bust.  Nobody wishes for this more than me, but I don't for a moment believe it's happening.  It's certainly not likely enough to transform how anyone should view this question.

Finally, the idea that 'trickle down' economics makes sense in a context where its entire raison d'etre is that teams compete with each other using resources that cost money, is too absurd for words. 

The tide metaphor is thoroughly unsuccessful here by the way.  The boats would all sit on the same water and be lifted in the same way by the same force.  That sounds a lot more like my preferred model of wealth distribution, than the one you're attempting to defend.

 

 

Some very good points, but what would you like to happen? What would cheer you up.

all teams papped out first qualifiers or just Sevco n Celtic?

surely you’ve got to want our teams to be at the top of the game to inspire or kids that being Scottish doesn’t mean you need to accept being sh*te

[GordonS]

3 hours ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Another one blinded by the money,the co-efficient doesn't hand out the dosh.

I didn't say it did so that's an absolute non sequitur.

But can you really not see the connection? Seriously??? More money means better players means higher coefficient scores. Is the money distributed solely on success in the competition? No, a huge chunk is related to how much the TV companies in your country pay for Champions League rights. Those from the big 5 have a locked-in advantage that has nothing to do with football.

Imagine Hearts got more prize money than Kilmarnock in the Scottish premier league because they got more folk watching them on TV. Fair?

 

[GordonS]

10 minutes ago, Yoda8 said:

Some very good points, but what would you like to happen? What would cheer you up.

all teams papped out first qualifiers or just Sevco n Celtic?

surely you’ve got to want our teams to be at the top of the game to inspire or kids that being Scottish doesn’t mean you need to accept being sh*te

Kids in Croatia, Belgium and Iceland don't need to see their clubs doing well in European competitions to become good footballers. English clubs dominated Europe through the late 70s and early 90s, and it did nothing to help the national team then or later. I don't think success of clubs in Europe makes any difference.

In any case, we're never going to have actual success in Europe ever again. Our kids can be inspired by our players playing for teams beyond Scotland, like Andy Robertson, just as kids in Croatia are inspired by Luca Modric.

[Yoda8]

True they can be inspired by likes of Robertson, but you don’t think more would be if our teams were taking on Europe’s best and thinking they could be sharing the park with a messi, ronaldo of their era.

not to mention it gives them the chance to see the best players in the flesh. 

 

[Marten]

1 hour ago, GordonS said:

I didn't say it did so that's an absolute non sequitur.

But can you really not see the connection? Seriously??? More money means better players means higher coefficient scores. Is the money distributed solely on success in the competition? No, a huge chunk is related to how much the TV companies in your country pay for Champions League rights. Those from the big 5 have a locked-in advantage that has nothing to do with football.

Imagine Hearts got more prize money than Kilmarnock in the Scottish premier league because they got more folk watching them on TV. Fair?

 

Apparently Valencia, who got knocked out in the group stage, got roughly the same prize money as Ajax, who were seconds away from a place in the final...

[GordonS]

12 minutes ago, Marten said:

Apparently Valencia, who got knocked out in the group stage, got roughly the same prize money as Ajax, who were seconds away from a place in the final...

And that's a club from a good sized, football obsessed country with wealthy TV companies. I wonder how much someone like Cluj would make from winning the thing.

[craigkillie]

As ever, it's not as simple as that. The TV-based section of the prize money was a compromise to convince clubs to vote for a collective TV deal in European competition. Previously, the home club had the rights to sell their fixture to the TV companies (as is still the case in the qualifying rounds of both competitions) and took in all the money for that.

Despite the perceived unfairness of this system, Cluj would almost certainly receive more money under the current system than they would have done under the previous system when they would have been basically selling to a Romanian TV audience plus occasionally to the away team's national broadcasters. Their share of the TV money is larger than their market share would dictate - it's something of a halfway house between complete revenue sharing and complete market-based prize money.

[Im_Rodger]

6/6 wins
Hopefully 8/8 before the night is done.

[RossBFaeDundee]

 

[Doonhamer doon south]

Good job Killie . . .

[Ginaro]

Update after QR1. Missed the opportunity to jump ahead of Switzerland into 19th, fucking Killie. On the plus side, Norway didn't gain ground as Molde were held to a draw and Brann lost to Shamrock Rovers. Croatia's Hajduk Split went out, as did a Serbian team. https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2020.html

15		Cyprus	3.000	5.500	7.000	6.125	1.000	22.625	4/ 4
16		Greece	5.400	5.800	5.100	5.100	0.000	21.400	5/ 5
17		Croatia	4.500	5.125	5.125	5.750	0.250	20.750	3/ 4
18		Serbia	4.250	2.875	6.375	6.000	1.000	20.500	3/ 4
19		Switzerland	5.300	4.300	6.500	3.900	0.000	20.000	5/ 5
20		Scotland	3.000	4.375	4.000	6.750	1.750	19.875	3/ 4
21		Norway	7.250	1.375	4.000	5.375	1.500	19.500	3/ 4
22		Sweden	4.750	2.750	5.375	4.125	1.250	18.250	4/ 4

Edited July 18, 2019 by Ginaro

[wastecoatwilly]

		Cup	qW	qD	qL	#W	#D	#L	Bonus	Points	Average
6	Scotland 4 teams		7	0	1	0	0	0	0	7.0	1.750
29	Celtic	CL	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	2.0	not out
29	Glasgow Rangers	EL	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	2.0	not out
29	Aberdeen	EL	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	2.0	not out
80	Kilmarnock	EL	1	0	1	0	0	0	0	1.0

Still decent sitting 6th so far.

[Antony]

Kilmarnock going out isn't that much of a blow to the coefficient because they probably wouldn't have picked up any points against Partizan. Hopefully Celtic and Sevco can win home and away next round and Aberdeen go through as well. Draw for the third round is on Monday sorry not Thursday. 

Edited July 18, 2019 by Antony
Mistake

[Ginaro]

7 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

Still decent sitting 6th so far.

Means f**k all really, especially as a few countries haven't even played a game. Still, we're actually two points better off than this time last season, as Aberdeen didn't join until QR2 and Rangers drew. After QR2 we had 10.5 pts so we should easily be able to achieve that.

12 minutes ago, Antony said:

Draw for the third round is on Thursday. 

The draw is Monday for both UCL and UEL

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2020/draws/round=2001138/

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2020/draws/round=2001148/

[wastecoatwilly]

20 minutes ago, Ginaro said:

Means f**k all really, especially as a few countries haven't even played a game. Still, we're actually two points better off than this time last season, as Aberdeen didn't join until QR2 and Rangers drew. After QR2 we had 10.5 pts so we should easily be able to achieve that.

The draw is Monday for both UCL and UEL

https://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2020/draws/round=2001138/

https://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2020/draws/round=2001148/

For me we've took full advantage of the early round and countries ahead of us are playing catch up plus we are not looking behind us.
Denmark and Croatia need 1.5 when Cyprus haven't lost a game and Serbia will probably get a lift from the Killie result.

[d31]

Killie result is an utter utter embarrassment but in terms of the points we'd be on the same at this point if Aberdeen/Connah had not scored their late goals last night and as pointed out Killie would have got 0 or 0.5 from the next round.

Not end of the world but would have been nice for Killie to have knocked in another 1-1.5 points.

I fully expect Celtic and Rangers to win home and away in the next round and an outside chance the Dons could too. I think certainly playing away first benefits the Dons in the tie giving the possibility to play on the counter for the whole tie.

[Monkey Tennis]

15 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Means f**k all really

At last, a Ginaro I can get on board with.

[Antony]

3 hours ago, d31 said:

Killie result is an utter utter embarrassment but in terms of the points we'd be on the same at this point if Aberdeen/Connah had not scored their late goals last night and as pointed out Killie would have got 0 or 0.5 from the next round.

Not end of the world but would have been nice for Killie to have knocked in another 1-1.5 points.

I fully expect Celtic and Rangers to win home and away in the next round and an outside chance the Dons could too. I think certainly playing away first benefits the Dons in the tie giving the possibility to play on the counter for the whole tie.

Aberdeen are at home first against Chikhura I think. They should go through but I can't see home and away wins. 

Edited July 19, 2019 by Antony

[charger29]

Aberdeen are at home first against Chikhura I think. They should go through but I can't see home and away wins. 

They're away first according to flashscore. Chikhura are 2/3 of the way through their season. Never easy playing against a team that'll be at a higher levels of fitness. Wouldn't surprise me if they get through against Aberdeen.

 

 

 

[Dons_1988]

Aberdeen are at home first against Chikhura I think. They should go through but I can't see home and away wins. 

Were away first