Coefficientwatch

[Monkey Tennis]

9 minutes ago, wastecoatwilly said:

So for 63 years the European cup/champions league has been a closed shop 78% of the time with the 4 main countries winning the trophy.
With or without the coin, I can accept that can you?

I can readily accept that, although I'm not entirely sure what you mean here by closed shop.

How do the figures shape up, for the pre-CL era as opposed to the CL era?

[Blootoon87]

What do you mean without the coin?! The four main countries have usually paid players the most, hence their European success.

[Monkey Tennis]

8 minutes ago, Blootoon87 said:

What do you mean without the coin?! The four main countries have usually paid players the most, hence their European success.

Indeed. 

The biggest clubs tend to come from the bigger cities and the larger countries have more of those.  

Money has always been important, but TV money over the last 25 years has transformed the differences in wealth between different leagues and therefore clubs.  Other structural changes to competitions and players' circumstances, have also had an impact.

[wastecoatwilly]

6 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I can readily accept that, although I'm not entirely sure what you mean here by closed shop.

How do the figures shape up, for the pre-CL era as opposed to the CL era?

Having 4 clubs instead of one makes it a closed shop to these countries.
You can say money dictates that but i would say this has always been the case as the game has evolved.

[54_and_counting]

When has money never been in football anyway, 

[SilverWolfe]

I can readily accept that, although I'm not entirely sure what you mean here by closed shop.
How do the figures shape up, for the pre-CL era as opposed to the CL era?

Big 4 won 70% pre CL, 88% post.

[Monkey Tennis]

14 minutes ago, 54_and_counting said:

When has money never been in football anyway, 

No such period exists.  However, the inequality has got massively greater since the 1990s.

[EdTheDuck]

Just now, Monkey Tennis said:

I can readily accept that, although I'm not entirely sure what you mean here by closed shop.

How do the figures shape up, for the pre-CL era as opposed to the CL era?

For the last 20 years when money has become seriously significant:

 the Big 4 have a 95% success rate. 19 out of 20.

9 different clubs won it but just 5 clubs shared 16 titles. 1 other finalist came from outside the Big 4 (and that was France, one of the Big 5)

 

The 20 years before that

The Big 4 have a 70% success rate 14 out of 20 

15 different clubs won it but there were only 4 multiple winners and they only won 9 titles and one of them was Nottingham Forest! (5 other finalists came from outside the Big 4 (1 from France, 4 from diddy nations))

For him to lump Marid’s early successes in as proof that money doesn’t talk is either disingenuous or he is seriously ignorant of history, both generally and football.

[bennett]

Sevco doing our bit to make up for hibs incompetence...

 

No need to thank us.

[Ginaro]

Update after this weeks games. We've now equalled last season's 5 year coefficient so from now on we are making improvements. Two wins and a draw from Celtic and Rangers in the play-off round and we'll go above Poland, who lost all three of their teams today.

Serbia and Belarus got a few results and also still have a chance of the UCL bonus points, with guaranteed UEL group stage if they fail. Sweden have Malmo but they play the Danish champions for a place in the UEL group stage. Israel and Azerbaijan will likely have a team in the group stage

19		Serbia	2.750	4.250	2.875	6.375	3.875	20.125 +0.500	2/ 4
20		Belarus	5.500	5.125	3.000	3.250	3.000	19.875 +0.375	1/ 4
21		Poland	4.750	5.500	3.875	2.875	2.250	19.250 +0.125	0
22		Sweden	3.900	4.750	2.750	5.375	2.000	18.775 +0.125	1/ 4
23		Scotland	4.000	3.000	4.375	4.000	3.250	18.625 +0.125	2/ 4
24		Israel	1.375	2.250	6.750	5.625	2.375	18.375 +0.250	1/ 4
25		Azerbaijan	3.625	4.375	4.250	4.375	1.625	18.250 +0.125	1/ 4

[Guest]

Is there really any point for clubs from the likes of Scotland to continue with this European farce ??

The Inter Toto was scrapped as it was basically costing clubs money and you had to play so many games just to gain a European place "proper", so basically what we now have is just the inter toto in a different guise but with actually even more games to play just to get the right to get skelped off a club from a "chosen" country who has a a huge budget due to their population.

Is that reallly sport ???

I'd also think that these "European games" will in fact cost our clubs money and also take a toll on the players throughout the season, so basically there's  nothing at all in it for our teams.

Time for the Scottish teams to tell Uefa to go take a flying fcuk to themselves and hopefully other nations would also follow suit..........

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Is there really any point for clubs from the likes of Scotland to continue with this European farce ??

The Inter Toto was scrapped as it was basically costing clubs money and you had to play so many games just to gain a European place "proper", so basically what we now have is just the inter toto in a different guise but with actually even more games to play just to get the right to get skelped off a club from a "chosen" country who has a a huge budget due to their population.

Is that reallly sport ???

I'd also think that these "European games" will in fact cost our clubs money and also take a toll on the players throughout the season, so basically there's  nothing at all in it for our teams.

Time for the Scottish teams to tell Uefa to go take a flying fcuk to themselves and hopefully other nations would also follow suit..........

While the Europa League qualifiers is basically like going through the Intertoto Cup, there is a difference = money.

Hibs will have made €780k in prize money plus match day revenue from 42,988 fans turning up to 3 games.

Aberdeen get €260k in prize money plus match day revenue that brought from 20,313.

They probably find that more appealing than being in the Betfred Cup group stages.

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

While the Europa League qualifiers is basically like going through the Intertoto Cup, there is a difference = money.

Hibs will have made €780k in prize money plus match day revenue from 42,988 fans turning up to 3 games.

Aberdeen get €260k in prize money plus match day revenue that brought from 20,313.

They probably find that more appealing than being in the Betfred Cup group stages.

Have we deducted costs ?

Also, both Hibs and Aberdeen have had favourable draws against teams which are either local such as Burnley or easy travelling destinations such as Greece and Norway.

What would the situation have been in "glamour matches" against teams from Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia etc ???

[falkirkthebigclub]

13 hours ago, Ginaro said:

Update after this weeks games. We've now equalled last season's 5 year coefficient so from now on we are making improvements. Two wins and a draw from Celtic and Rangers in the play-off round and we'll go above Poland, who lost all three of their teams today.

Serbia and Belarus got a few results and also still have a chance of the UCL bonus points, with guaranteed UEL group stage if they fail. Sweden have Malmo but they play the Danish champions for a place in the UEL group stage. Israel and Azerbaijan will likely have a team in the group stage

19		Serbia	2.750	4.250	2.875	6.375	3.875	20.125 +0.500	2/ 4
20		Belarus	5.500	5.125	3.000	3.250	3.000	19.875 +0.375	1/ 4
21		Poland	4.750	5.500	3.875	2.875	2.250	19.250 +0.125	0
22		Sweden	3.900	4.750	2.750	5.375	2.000	18.775 +0.125	1/ 4
23		Scotland	4.000	3.000	4.375	4.000	3.250	18.625 +0.125	2/ 4
24		Israel	1.375	2.250	6.750	5.625	2.375	18.375 +0.250	1/ 4
25		Azerbaijan	3.625	4.375	4.250	4.375	1.625	18.250 +0.125	1/ 4

Bumping this magnificent post to reinforce the purpose of the thread.

[FairWeatherFan]

14 minutes ago, WATTOO said:

Have we deducted costs ?

Also, both Hibs and Aberdeen have had favourable draws against teams which are either local such as Burnley or easy travelling destinations such as Greece and Norway.

What would the situation have been in "glamour matches" against teams from Kazakhstan, Azerbaijan, Georgia etc ???

Can't deduct costs I don't know.

I'll take the six figure sum in prize money, ability to charge and likely attract more fans, sell TV rights and guarantee of Betfred Cup Last 16 receiving an additional minimum of £35k in prize money.

Over the 4 Betfred Cup games where I might get knocked out in the group receiving £17k-£25k.

[JamesM82]

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

While the Europa League qualifiers is basically like going through the Intertoto Cup, there is a difference = money.

Hibs will have made €780k in prize money plus match day revenue from 42,988 fans turning up to 3 games.

Aberdeen get €260k in prize money plus match day revenue that brought from 20,313.

They probably find that more appealing than being in the Betfred Cup group stages.

Aberdeen will have got about €500K for getting to QR2. Plus whatever gate money they made from the Burnley game (~19K at £25 a head?, probably getting on for £500K). Playing in the EL qualifiers is relatively* lucrative for Scottish teams nowadays. UEFA has pushed more money down to that level to avoid the scenario of 5-10 years ago (or in the Intertoto) where teams could lose money.

(* relative to playing in the Betfred group and/or pre-season friendlies)

Edited August 17, 2018 by JamesM82

[FairWeatherFan]

1 minute ago, JamesM82 said:

Aberdeen will have got about €500K for getting to QR2. Plus whatever gate money they made from the Burnley game (~19K at £25 a head?, probably getting on for £500K). Playing in the EL qualifiers is relatively* lucrative for Scottish teams nowadays. UEFA has pushed more money down to that level to avoid the scenario of 5-10 years ago (or in the Intertoto) where teams could lose money.

(* relative to playing in the Betfred group and/or pre-season friendlies)

Prize money through the qualifiers accumulates with each round you participate in, it's not a fixed amount for an exit at a particular round. That's why Aberdeen will only have received €260k for the one round, while Hibs will have gotten €780k for their participation through 3 rounds.

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Prize money through the qualifiers accumulates with each round you participate in, it's not a fixed amount for an exit at a particular round. That's why Aberdeen will only have received €260k for the one round, while Hibs will have gotten €780k for their participation through 3 rounds.

OK, I take your point guys and stand corrected. I didn't appreciate the prize money was so good.

I still hate the way UEFA run things now, just to suit the big countries though !!!

[ssdon]

After this weeks fixtures we have matched the 3.25 points that will drop off next season, so anything gained now is an improvement.

Aberdeen didn't have much chance in their tie.

Hibs out in 3rd qualifying round, basically what the Dons have achieved in last few years. 

Celtic have been poor so far but you'd expect them to win their next tie and get in group stages.

Rangers done well, good chance of winning their next tie and also being in the group stages.

Seems the non OF teams really struggle to get past 3rd round ties, Unless there is more funding in the game then don't know how the non OF clubs are going to get in to that playoff and beyond.

[FairWeatherFan]

Good news for Aberdeen is that they should have a personal coefficient of 5.5 next year which would be good enough to have been seeded in the 2nd Qualifying Round this year. Hopefully they can get a decent run if they qualify next year.