Coefficientwatch

[Monkey Tennis]

1 minute ago, badgerthewitness said:

So the 1980s didn't come before the early 90s?

You're all over the place now. Worst attempt at trolling ever.

I'm not trolling.

The 1980s did indeed arrive before the early 1990s, as did the 1760s.  I've not suggested that either represented a golden age.  

Instead, I've expressed regret over how the European competitions started to be altered in the early 90s.  It's not actually as quirky an outlook as you seem to think, you know.

[RedLichtie86]

I've always understood it as being accumulated with nothing being awarded for qualification if you reach the group stage. Due to the group stage minimum being so much greater.
EDIT:
https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/stakeholders/clubs/news/newsid=2562024.html

Think you maybe right.

[hellbhoy]

11 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I'm not trolling.

The 1980s did indeed arrive before the early 1990s, as did the 1760s.  I've not suggested that either represented a golden age.  

Instead, I've expressed regret over how the European competitions started to be altered in the early 90s.  It's not actually as quirky an outlook as you seem to think, you know.

Funnily enough though? In the 1990's the TV companies started to throw money at football. So it's no surprise that the bigger clubs and associations started to flex their muscles to syphon most of the cash by creating new formats to make it harder for smaller clubs and associations to reach the cash lucrative latter parts of their competitions.

Seeding is by far the worst part of it and in particular in favour towards the bigger leagues who have clubs seeded that haven't played in Europe for umpteen seasons. Whilst other clubs that play in European competitions year in and year out have been unseeded even if they have better runs in Europe just because their league isn't regarded as one of the big leagues. I think the coefficient should reflect the clubs performance in Europe rather than the countries coefficient.

I actually wonder why the f**k UEFA run two competitions at all? What is the point ffs? There used to be three competitions that were for A, The league winners B, The National cup winners and one for those who weren't winners but got a chance to win a European trophy. Now it's two competitions and I don't a fucking difference at all other than a sham to give the bigger clubs that get knocked of the Champions League another chance to shite all over the smaller clubs by having another chance to win a lesser trophy???

The modern European competitions are designed to give the bigger leagues and clubs more chances to pish all over the smaller leagues and clubs imo.

[shuggz]

22 minutes ago, RedLichtie86 said:

1 hour ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I've always understood it as being accumulated with nothing being awarded for qualification if you reach the group stage. Due to the group stage minimum being so much greater.
EDIT:
https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/stakeholders/clubs/news/newsid=2562024.html

Think you maybe right.

so aberdeen get less money than Hibs and Sevco,because they start later.Financial penalty for finishing higher?

That can't be right.

[FairWeatherFan]

7 minutes ago, shuggz said:

so aberdeen get less money than Hibs and Sevco,because they start later.Financial penalty for finishing higher?

That can't be right.

It's the way I read it. So I suppose it's a way of UEFA guaranteeing games get played on such short notice. It might of been an article regarding St. Johnstone, but they mentioned how a lot of the money can get eaten up each round due to travel costs and the like.

[hellbhoy]

1 hour ago, shuggz said:

so aberdeen get less money than Hibs and Sevco,because they start later.Financial penalty for finishing higher?

That can't be right.

This post was altered because I posted shite facts.

Edited July 21, 2018 by hellbhoy

[FairWeatherFan]

22 minutes ago, hellbhoy said:

No no no, the basic payout from getting knocked in the earliest stages does not differ much from one qualifier to the next. you get knocked out in the first round you get £220K, but if you get knocked out in the third qualifier the club only receives £260K. A paltry £40K extra for winning two rounds more.

Should Aberdeen, Hibs and Sevco all get knocked out in the next round and I hope they do not, they will all receive £240K each for elimination. It's not a cumulative amount like £220K for 1st qualifier and add on £240K for the second qualifier. Something to do with financial fair-play in the qualifiers where all clubs get roughly the same amount no matter which round of qualification.

It's when the group stages start then the amounts start to spiral out of control and clubs get huge amounts just for participating in the group stages where all the big clubs are eventually included.

Even though the article is for the 2016/17 season the hyperlink at the bottom for the solidarity payments for teams knocked out in qualifying is for 2017/18.

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/about-uefa/news/newsid=2510173.html

There you'll see that last year the Scottish Clubs got:

And a good one to highlight that prize money accumulates more obviously would be Hungary. Ferencvaros, Videton and Vasas all started in the 2017/18 Europa League at the 1st Qualifying Round but...

Vasas Q1

Ferencvaros Q1-Q2

Videton Q1-Q2-Q3-Playoff

 

[hellbhoy]

23 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

Even though the article is for the 2016/17 season the hyperlink at the bottom for the solidarity payments for teams knocked out in qualifying is for 2017/18.

https://www.uefa.com/insideuefa/about-uefa/news/newsid=2510173.html

There you'll see that last year the Scottish Clubs got:

And a good one to highlight that prize money accumulates more obviously would be Hungary. Ferencvaros, Videton and Vasas all started in the 2017/18 Europa League at the 1st Qualifying Round but...

Vasas Q1

Ferencvaros Q1-Q2

Videton Q1-Q2-Q3-Playoff

 

Cheers mate, looks like I got it wrong completely and just posted shite then? sorry my bad, apologies.

Aberdeen got one more round last season and your link & post clearly show it's compounding amounts for each round. Last time I quote some info I read from elsewhere without checking the facts first.

Glad we got that cleared up then.

ETA Celtic's windfall just for the seethe from MT.

 

Edited July 21, 2018 by hellbhoy
For the seethe

[FairWeatherFan]

16 minutes ago, hellbhoy said:

Cheers mate, looks like I got it wrong completely and just posted shite then? sorry my bad, apologies.

Aberdeen got one more round last season and your link & post clearly show it's compounding amounts for each round. Last time I quote some info I read from elsewhere without checking the facts first.

Glad we got that cleared up then.

ETA Celtic's windfall just for the seethe from MT.

 

It's one of those problems only rich people would have. Hand Lord Snootyton a handful of coins they might think that a shiny new 1p was more valuable than a dirty old £1. All because it's prettier.

For the likes of Sevilla & RB Leipzig entering at EL Q2 they'd blow through €200+k on the fuel for their private jet & the 5* Hotel in one round. They don't realise how smaller clubs can penny pinch in comparison and probably stretch out one round's worth of money across the entire qualification process and then bank the rest as pure profit.

To go from Q1 this year to the Playoff a club would bank €1.08m in prize money. That's nothing to the big leagues but a helluva lot to most of the clubs that make up the qualifying stages.

[hellbhoy]

5 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

It's one of those problems only rich people would have. Hand Lord Snootyton a handful of coins they might think that a shiny new 1p was more valuable than a dirty old £1. All because it's prettier.

For the likes of Sevilla & RB Leipzig entering at EL Q2 they'd blow through €200+k on the fuel for their private jet & the 5* Hotel in one round. They don't realise how smaller clubs can penny pinch in comparison and probably stretch out one round's worth of money across the entire qualification process and then bank the rest as pure profit.

To go from Q1 this year to the Playoff a club would bank €1.08m in prize money. That's nothing to the big leagues but a helluva lot to most of the clubs that make up the qualifying stages.

I can't believe I got that soooo wrong by trusting another source.

Good to know that our clubs will in our leagues financial position can obtain 7 figure amounts if they do well in Europe. Other than one obvious club I hope for a successful campaign that has more than one club in the group stages. Feck I might even grudgingly feel happy if all four clubs reach the group stages, I feel dirty now! 

[Monkey Tennis]

2 hours ago, hellbhoy said:

Funnily enough though? In the 1990's the TV companies started to throw money at football. So it's no surprise that the bigger clubs and associations started to flex their muscles to syphon most of the cash by creating new formats to make it harder for smaller clubs and associations to reach the cash lucrative latter parts of their competitions.

Seeding is by far the worst part of it and in particular in favour towards the bigger leagues who have clubs seeded that haven't played in Europe for umpteen seasons. Whilst other clubs that play in European competitions year in and year out have been unseeded even if they have better runs in Europe just because their league isn't regarded as one of the big leagues. I think the coefficient should reflect the clubs performance in Europe rather than the countries coefficient.

I actually wonder why the f**k UEFA run two competitions at all? What is the point ffs? There used to be three competitions that were for A, The league winners B, The National cup winners and one for those who weren't winners but got a chance to win a European trophy. Now it's two competitions and I don't a fucking difference at all other than a sham to give the bigger clubs that get knocked of the Champions League another chance to shite all over the smaller clubs by having another chance to win a lesser trophy???

The modern European competitions are designed to give the bigger leagues and clubs more chances to pish all over the smaller leagues and clubs imo.

Indeed.  It sounds like you share a lot of my concerns.

Best not tell Badgerthewitness.    He regards such concerns as the very essence of bonkerdom.

[falkirkthebigclub]

1 minute ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Indeed.  It sounds like you share a lot of my concerns.

Best not tell Badgerthewitness.    He regards such concerns as the very essence of bonkerdom.

Oh you scoundrel, you.

[Monkey Tennis]

56 minutes ago, hellbhoy said:

 

ETA Celtic's windfall just for the seethe from MT.

 

I don't need to seethe anew - it's a fairly standard setting.

Given the sensibilities that you have but wrestle with, you must recognise how wrong it all is though.  No?

[hellbhoy]

23 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

I don't need to seethe anew - it's a fairly standard setting.

Given the sensibilities that you have but wrestle with, you must recognise how wrong it all is though.  No?

Yes I do recognise how wrong it all is. I suppose we'll see a diddy club and associations revolt at some point in the near future when them c***s at the UEFA HQ try to squeeze more automatic group stage places for the big few. There will be talk of a splinter competition for all diddy associations to compete in threatening UEFA's favouritism towards greedy clubs and associations by making their abomination less attractive for huge amounts of obscene money.

Iirc wasn't there talk about an Atlantic league not so long ago?

[Lebowski]

Yes yes Hibs are raking in some money from the extra gate increase. If you had read my post slightly different then you'd agree that Hibs would make far more money if they had drawn a bigger team where Hibs could sell more and command more money for the tickets as well as bigger TV revenue and bigger brand name advertising and could easily earn far more money than £280K.
Not saying playing earlier in the competitions won't generate income but if Hibs reach the last play-off round to the group stage then Hibs will be raking it in big time and we are talking millions instead of hundreds of thousands here.

No. We wouldn't. We make more money the more rounds we're in. Through both gate money and prize money.

[hellbhoy]

3 hours ago, Lebowski said:

8 hours ago, hellbhoy said:

Yes yes Hibs are raking in some money from the extra gate increase. If you had read my post slightly different then you'd agree that Hibs would make far more money if they had drawn a bigger team where Hibs could sell more and command more money for the tickets as well as bigger TV revenue and bigger brand name advertising and could easily earn far more money than £280K.
Not saying playing earlier in the competitions won't generate income but if Hibs reach the last play-off round to the group stage then Hibs will be raking it in big time and we are talking millions instead of hundreds of thousands here.

No. We wouldn't. We make more money the more rounds we're in. Through both gate money and prize money.

Yeh, I got that from FWF and found out I was posting a loada dogs bolloks, carry on.

[FairWeatherFan]

Wasn't sure where to put this but thought this was a good place. The projected Group Stages for this year's Champions League and Europa League if the seeded teams win out through the qualifying rounds.

Champions League:

Only 6 teams can get through qualifying and in to the group stage. Those are the teams marked by *, **, *3, *4

Europa League:

The *,  **, *3, are for those teams going through the main Europa League Qualifiers.

The @1, @2, @3, @4 are those going through the Champions League dropout qualifiers.

[GordonS]

On 20/07/2018 at 23:30, hellbhoy said:

^^^ Spitting actual feathers out.

You don't have a clue about the business world do you? The more high profile the game in Scotland ie regularly qualifying for the group stages for 3 or more clubs and the acquisition of better quality players to compete in said groups attracts sponsors and also funnily enough more viewers. This is how the business model works for all the leagues in Europe.

 

This is nearly right, but really wrong in the most important way.

When the profile of Scottish football is higher, the lion's share of any additional money goes to the OF. It gives them the funds to be less uncompetitive with the big boys, and to utterly dominate at home. Sure, maybe Aberdeen get a few bob more, they have a slightly higher standard of player and make another round in Europe. But there's no way they finish ahead of Rangers, twice in a row, deservedly, and until Brendan came along they were seriously hunting Celtic.

So the question is - do you want the additional money if it means a much less competitive and entertaining league and cups, much more dominance from the OF, and much more fuel for the condescension of their fans?

Money can't buy you love.

[hellbhoy]

8 minutes ago, GordonS said:

This is nearly right, but really wrong in the most important way.

When the profile of Scottish football is higher, the lion's share of any additional money goes to the OF. It gives them the funds to be less uncompetitive with the big boys, and to utterly dominate at home. Sure, maybe Aberdeen get a few bob more, they have a slightly higher standard of player and make another round in Europe. But there's no way they finish ahead of Rangers, twice in a row, deservedly, and until Brendan came along they were seriously hunting Celtic.

So the question is - do you want the additional money if it means a much less competitive and entertaining league and cups, much more dominance from the OF, and much more fuel for the condescension of their fans?

Money can't buy you love.

This might be pie in the sky thinking Gordon. I'd like to think that the other clubs outside the OF on their own accord could bring in better revenue streams so that they could raise the level and profile of our game without the OF's influence. That somehow another two or three clubs regularly compete in the EL group stages year in and year out can independently generate income to improve their squads to mount a credible title challenge of sorts or more likely beat the OF more often than not in home competitions. I'd like to think those clubs fanbases would increase because of the improved quality of player and the knowing they could beat the OF on a more level playing field than we have at the moment.

Taking those factors above tempting more higher profile sponsors with bigger revenue deals not because of the OF circus guaranteed 4 times a season but because we have 4 or 5 teams scrapping it out for cups and titles. Daydreamer stuff but hopefully somehow other clubs outside the OF manage to be successful displacing the OF dominance by finishing above them in the league and by beating the OF in the cups.

Ultimately I'd love to see another club lift the SPFL Premiership title. I remember the last time Aberdeen won the league, seems like centuries ago now. A different club winning the title can only be good for the game as a whole, hopefully after ten in a row. A certain fanbase would just die after the ten in a row and I'd be happy for another club to break the OF stranglehold.

[Monkey Tennis]

10 hours ago, hellbhoy said:

This might be pie in the sky thinking Gordon. I'd like to think that the other clubs outside the OF on their own accord could bring in better revenue streams so that they could raise the level and profile of our game without the OF's influence. That somehow another two or three clubs regularly compete in the EL group stages year in and year out can independently generate income to improve their squads to mount a credible title challenge of sorts or more likely beat the OF more often than not in home competitions. I'd like to think those clubs fanbases would increase because of the improved quality of player and the knowing they could beat the OF on a more level playing field than we have at the moment.

Taking those factors above tempting more higher profile sponsors with bigger revenue deals not because of the OF circus guaranteed 4 times a season but because we have 4 or 5 teams scrapping it out for cups and titles. Daydreamer stuff but hopefully somehow other clubs outside the OF manage to be successful displacing the OF dominance by finishing above them in the league and by beating the OF in the cups.

Ultimately I'd love to see another club lift the SPFL Premiership title. I remember the last time Aberdeen won the league, seems like centuries ago now. A different club winning the title can only be good for the game as a whole, hopefully after ten in a row. A certain fanbase would just die after the ten in a row and I'd be happy for another club to break the OF stranglehold.

What utter rubbish.

The bloke with the grasp of the "business world" just hopes that "somehow" massive advantages can be overturned.

Embarrassing drivel.