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lionel hutz

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I thought the new coefficient system is only about progression rather than wins?


Basically each win earn Scotland 1 point in the qualifying rounds.

As we have 4 teams in Europe all points earned are divided by 4.

So each win in qualifying rounds is 0.25 points. 0.125 for a draw. 0 for a loss.

Potential points to earn are doubled in from groups stages onwards with bonus points awarded for reaching certain rounds.
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1 hour ago, Monkey Tennis said:

How much better, or worse would our current coefficient situation need to get for it to have an impact, either positive or negative, on the participation of Scottish sides?

What would those impacts look like? 

This shows you where you need to be ranked to get your teams in at the various stages: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/AccessList2018.html 

And this shows everyone's current score: https://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method5/crank2019.html

 

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Overall a good 1st round.

Out of the countries who entered with 3 teams, Scotland gained the most  points.

Be tough for the Dons to add anything but in the past few years the English teams have been rank in the earlier rounds so you never know. 

Celtic should progress without too much issues, tough matches for Rangers and Hibs but winnable. 

Edited by ssdon
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53 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

How much better, or worse would our current coefficient situation need to get for it to have an impact, either positive or negative, on the participation of Scottish sides?

What would those impacts look like? 

I'd say the good news is that it can't really get any worse. Our champions already enter in the 1st Qualifying Round of the Champions League, the only difference we'd see in the Europa League is all 3x teams would eventually start in the 1st Qualifying Round. Instead of the Scottish Cup winner/Premiership runner up getting into the 2nd Qualifying Round.

If we can get into the Top 17 we'd be guarantee our champions starting in the 2nd Qualifying Round of the Champions League. And our Europa League Qualifiers would all start at different steps 3rd Qualifying Round, 2nd Qualifying Round and 1st Qualifying Round.

Under the previous format, 17th would roughly take 23-26 points. Our highest single season performance in the last 5 years was 4.375. Repeat that for a 5 year period and you'd only get 21.875. So everyone has to do better than what they've done in order to see any major changes.

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Thank you for both answers - most helpful.

As stated, the reality is that things can get no worse really.  Despite Scotland's lowly status, the countries in the lower category really are the genuine minnows.

Getting into the one above (presumably the thing most posters on this thread yearn for) should be realistic, but obviously requires sustained improvement on recent performance.

 

Where it comes down for me though, concerns the 'prize' for reaching this next bracket up.  Genuinely, what's so attractive about it?

If I played for an EL qualifier, I'd maybe want the extended summer holiday that entering at a later stage would afford me, but I'm not, and very few, very fortunate people are.   As a fan, starting earlier probably provides more scope for a winnable tie and more scope for foreign travel, assuming that more ties are likely.

As regards the CL, I don't want a shorter route for our champions to the type of wealth that further distorts our domestic game.  Realistically, that club will only be one of those who already enjoy vast financial advantages over their peers at home.

Despite the fairly obvious desire for our teams to do better, for our league to 'look' better, I really don't see an improvement in our coefficient standing as especially desirable.

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2 hours ago, Monkey Tennis said:

Thank you for both answers - most helpful.

As stated, the reality is that things can get no worse really.  Despite Scotland's lowly status, the countries in the lower category really are the genuine minnows.

Getting into the one above (presumably the thing most posters on this thread yearn for) should be realistic, but obviously requires sustained improvement on recent performance.

 

Where it comes down for me though, concerns the 'prize' for reaching this next bracket up.  Genuinely, what's so attractive about it?

If I played for an EL qualifier, I'd maybe want the extended summer holiday that entering at a later stage would afford me, but I'm not, and very few, very fortunate people are.   As a fan, starting earlier probably provides more scope for a winnable tie and more scope for foreign travel, assuming that more ties are likely.

As regards the CL, I don't want a shorter route for our champions to the type of wealth that further distorts our domestic game.  Realistically, that club will only be one of those who already enjoy vast financial advantages over their peers at home.

Despite the fairly obvious desire for our teams to do better, for our league to 'look' better, I really don't see an improvement in our coefficient standing as especially desirable.

I don't think there is a prize. It's like you say clubs want to do better and casual fans wanting to see the national league at a higher standing. The press are always just going to hammer the game for not living up to the rose tinted past.

 

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Thank you for both answers - most helpful.
As stated, the reality is that things can get no worse really.  Despite Scotland's lowly status, the countries in the lower category really are the genuine minnows.
Getting into the one above (presumably the thing most posters on this thread yearn for) should be realistic, but obviously requires sustained improvement on recent performance.
 
Where it comes down for me though, concerns the 'prize' for reaching this next bracket up.  Genuinely, what's so attractive about it?
If I played for an EL qualifier, I'd maybe want the extended summer holiday that entering at a later stage would afford me, but I'm not, and very few, very fortunate people are.   As a fan, starting earlier probably provides more scope for a winnable tie and more scope for foreign travel, assuming that more ties are likely.
As regards the CL, I don't want a shorter route for our champions to the type of wealth that further distorts our domestic game.  Realistically, that club will only be one of those who already enjoy vast financial advantages over their peers at home.
Despite the fairly obvious desire for our teams to do better, for our league to 'look' better, I really don't see an improvement in our coefficient standing as especially desirable.
Couldn't agree more, though many disagree. If you took away all of Celtic's European money we could be looking at a league with 6 genuine contenders for the title this season. I'd take that over Hibs getting two weeks extra holiday.
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37 minutes ago, FairWeatherFan said:

I don't think there is a prize. It's like you say clubs want to do better and casual fans wanting to see the national league at a higher standing.

Well why is a thread devoted to the coefficient then, in which people talk about points for victories and compare the progress of our clubs to others near us in this table?

To many posters on here, this is clearly about something more tangible than pride.

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34 minutes ago, Forest of Dean said:

Because we want each of our individual clubs to do better in Europe and a better national coefficient helps with that.

Ostensibly sensible enough.  

However, it irritates me.  As we know, European club football is now designed to ensure that only a handful of clubs from a handful of countries can achieve anything constituting success in sporting terms.  

The real value of these competitions is financial, and the huge income they generate is hideously and damagingly distributed. 

It's a party to which our sides are conspicuously and deliberately not invited, so agonising over how we perform in such a context is futile and is to play the game of those doing the excluding.

PS. Does getting a bye in a couple of rounds really represent "doing better" anyway?

Edited by Monkey Tennis
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13 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

 It's a party to which our sides are conspicuously and deliberately not invited, so agonising over how we perform in such a context is futile and is to play the game of those doing the excluding.

Yeah, its shite how it's a big league, big team money fest now definitely. Doesn't mean that the fans of our clubs that make it into Europe aren't hoping to do better and see their teams become more competitive.

If anything our domestic game is currently less competitive and more predictable than the Europa League is. So giving up on it would make things more dull rather than less.

13 minutes ago, Monkey Tennis said:

PS. Does getting a by in a couple of rounds really represent "doing better"?

It's objectively better. Our league is becoming stronger than where it was now and 2-3 years of improvement could make it a real possibility that teams will qualify for the group stages where we'd all hope our individual clubs would be.

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