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lionel hutz

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Hapoel Be'er Sheva through to the EL last 32, one of only two teams eliminated from the CL playoff round to manage out of the groups. Please tell us more about Celtic's easy draw in the qualifying rounds...



You'll struggle to get 54 to hold his hands up and admit he was wrong. That's Be'er Sheva now beaten Inter Milan home & away as well as eliminating a good Premiership side. Not bad for a wee pub team eh.
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12 hours ago, Davie Bhoy said:

You'll struggle to get 54 to hold his hands up and admit he was wrong. That's Be'er Sheva now beaten Inter Milan home & away as well as eliminating a good Premiership side. Not bad for a wee pub team eh.

Looks like they may have bottled it at Celtic Park, given their results since. No shame there given their inexperience. Definitely a better team than many have given them credit for.

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Unofficial access list for the new system starting in 2018-19, simulated by posters on Bert Kassies using UEFA information.

Under this system our champion would start in CL QR1. No change in EL entry points.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/AccessList2018.html


Improvement in entry points would only be seen in reaching 17th (perhaps a couple of places below depending on titleholder slots being used) and a worsening in dropping to 25th.

We're currently 23rd.

An extra CL slot would require reaching 15th.

Edited by HibeeJibee
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13 minutes ago, HibeeJibee said:

Unofficial access list for the new system starting in 2018-19, simulated by posters on Bert Kassies using UEFA information.

Under this system our champion would start in CL QR1. No change in EL entry points.

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/AccessList2018.html


Improvement in entry points would only be seen in reaching 17th (perhaps a couple of places below depending on titleholder slots being used) and a worsening in dropping to 25th.

We're currently 23rd.

An extra CL slot would require reaching 15th.

 

I was just having a look at this earlier today. I was expecting more changes to be honest. The only major one that affects Scotland is the fact that there's an extra round of qualifying for the CL, but that seems to affect most of the countries in and around us. It also states that only the top 10 nations (compared to top 12 previously) will gain automatic qualification to the group stage of the CL, but it's most likely that it will be the top 11 as I imagine the CL winner will generally also qualify via their league position.

I suppose we're also in danger of finishing 25th, giving our cup winner an extra EL qualifying round, as we're due to start next season in 24th place.

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  • 1 month later...

It is possible that all three clubs will enter in QR1, but it is highly likely that the highest ranked entrant (Scottish Cup winners, or 2nd in the Premiership if Celtic win the cup) will enter QR2.  The UEFA access list has spots cleared in the later rounds for various contingencies, such as the Champions League or Europa League winners not otherwise qualifying for Europe.  In practice, these spots are almost always vacated, which means that various teams move up from the previous round.  The only thing which could really stop it would be a bunch of weird scenarios like Leicester winning the Champions League and the Europa League winners not having already qualified for Europe through their domestic league.

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It would probably be better if all 3 teams entered Q1. More chances to gain more points for the coefficient.

And the teams that complain about not having enough time off need to shut up.

We are in this situation because too many teams and their players think they can just turn up and win against a 'minnow' from Lithuania, Malta, Faroes etc etc.

Its up to every team to get us out of this mess by knuckling down and grind out win after win. Only way they will get their holidays.

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As far as I can see the only possibility of all EL entrants starting in QR1 is if Cyprus and Bulgaria overtake us, which is extremely unlikely (particularly in Bulgaria's case). I saw this on the BBC gossip column (taken from the Daily Record), but I think they've got it wrong. 25th place in the coefficient have 3 teams entering at QR1, if you don't count the likely permutations that @craigkillie mentioned. However, we're not in 25th place, we're in 23rd and are unlikely to drop any places. As such our cup winner will enter in QR2.

I think there was some confusion because on the Bert Kassies' access list for 2017/18 it has Scotland in 25th place, but this is just a label from the end of last season and not the final placings for this season.

 

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/access2017.html - Access List

 

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/data/method4/crank2017.html - Current Rankings

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1 minute ago, craigkillie said:

The entries for 2017/18 are determined based on the placings at the end of last season.

Ah okay, that makes more sense. The article states that we're currently ranked 25th, despite the fact that we're 23rd. Our cup winners will almost certainly go in at QR2 the following season then...and most likely next season too.

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Similar story in today's Scotsman. It's uninformed journalism.

As covered above we knew we'd dropped to 25th last spring. Issue is that Kosovo have now joined - receiving 1 CL & 1 EL place to begin with, which went unused this season due to lack of licenses and appropriate stadiums - and Gibraltar have received a second EL place (although still not the third they would otherwise be entitled to: unless they're changing the regulations to make bottom 3/4 lose a slot).

Due to this, ranks 24 + 25 have dropped their cup-winners into EL QR1. However as Craigkillie notes the non-use of title-holder places will in all probability still see our cup winner - or Premiership runner-up if Celtic do the double - join at QR2.

For 2018-19 on (i.e. decided by coefficient this spring) the 'new system' comes in with England, Spain, Italy, Germany getting 4 CL groupstage slots etc. It appears likely rank 24 will be needed to keep cup winner in QR2, or lower with unused title-holders places.

Given we're currently 23rd we will be fine - a storming EL run from Omonia Nicosia could close up ground, although they start with Athletic Bilbao, but Ludgorets Razgrad can't bridge the gap to Bulgaria - and it makes no difference above that until 17th, which is way beyond our reach:

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/uefa/AccessList2018.html

However as you can see that breakdown relies on UEFA getting through plan to make 'minnows' play preliminaries at the end of the preceding season:
* CL - 4 clubs - champions of Gibraltar, Andorra, San Marino, Kosovo - 1 slot in QR1
* EL - 16 clubs - all from Lithuania (except cup winner), Malta (ditto), Wales (ditto), Faroe Islands, Gibraltar, Andorra, San Marino, Kosovo - 8 slots in QR1

Edited by HibeeJibee
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5 hours ago, RedLichtie86 said:

It would probably be better if all 3 teams entered Q1. More chances to gain more points for the coefficient.

And the teams that complain about not having enough time off need to shut up.

We are in this situation because too many teams and their players think they can just turn up and win against a 'minnow' from Lithuania, Malta, Faroes etc etc.

Its up to every team to get us out of this mess by knuckling down and grind out win after win. Only way they will get their holidays.

It's only QR1 that's really an issue anyway... QR2 is only 1 or 2 day before the clubs not in Europe start the LC groupstage.

I also read somewhere - possibly on the Bert Kassies site - that from 2018-19 the dates of QR1-QR3 may move back a week.

Complacency seems to have been an issue in EL QR1. We've had 6 clubs in that over the years:
* Aberdeen lost a leg v Jeunesse Esch
* Hearts beat Infonet Tallinn home-and-away
* Aberdeen drew both legs v Shkendja (won on away goals)
* St Johnstone lost a leg v Alashkert (lost on away goals)
* Aberdeen beat Daugava Riga home-and-away
* Motherwell lost a leg v Llanelli


Oddly enough the 2 home-and-away wins were against the only clubs halfway through their seasons, rather than also in pre-season, perhaps dispelling slightly that popular claim.

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9 minutes ago, we are perth said:

If the winners of the Scottish Cup finish 1st, 2nd or 3rd this season does the cup spot go to 4th in the league? Or if it's Celtic that win it do the runners up get the spot?

No, they've done away with cup runners-up entirely. Fourth in Premiership will qualify for EL unless a club placed fifth or below wins the Scottish Cup.

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What would be the difference in coefficient points if the Scottish Cup winner went into the first qualifying round, won both their ties, and then got papped out in the 2nd round easily, as opposed to just doing the latter part?  Do we get much of a boost or is it more of a "better-than-nothing" approach?

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41 minutes ago, forameus said:

What would be the difference in coefficient points if the Scottish Cup winner went into the first qualifying round, won both their ties, and then got papped out in the 2nd round easily, as opposed to just doing the latter part?  Do we get much of a boost or is it more of a "better-than-nothing" approach?

If they were to win both of their games then we would gain an extra 0.5 coefficient points overall.

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