Coefficientwatch

[Davie Bhoy]

Feast of Scottish football? you mean rest, ....like Motherwell and Hamilton? I can see that Partick Thistle might give you problems and I would if I was a Celtic fan seriously worry about Morton if they ever came up.

Yes, the rest. Bloody phone/site seems to change words too easily.

But anyway is it not like nuking a little 2cm spider from orbit? And what about the complaints over other teams unable to make the title race more competitive? How can any club in Scotland compete with that?

No it's not like that because this squad isn't just built for the challenges of the domestic game. It's also to help us do well in Europe. This is where we enter the unknown. This season we have spent very little given we've been drawn against big clubs from the top 3 clubs in Europe. Maybe we should use your argument and asses it on a points v money spent to evaluate value for money. Anyway, as this is a European topic I'm not sure why what we spend has to do with the Scottish game in that context. If fans want to compete with us then turn up and put the money in. Don't just cry about it.

But anyway you remind me of the Rangers fans who also didn't care about how much cash they went through to achieve success. As long as they got their fill of win and trophies it didn't matter.

 

Which is entirely up to them. If they can afford to repay the loans etc then fair enough. They couldn't afford to splash the cash,....we can!

[BFTD]

8 hours ago, CityDave said:

But anyway is it not like nuking a little 2cm spider from orbit?

Pray KnightswoodBear never becomes Prime Minister.

[Ross.]

13 hours ago, Davie Bhoy said:

 

This isn't just for the playing squad though which is where he was aiming that. This includes everyone employed at the club.

Irrelevant though. I'd argue that the most important position in a football club is the first team coach, which does not come under playing staff. The only way you can make a comparison on this is through total wage budgets. Celtic, through no fault of their own, are streets ahead of the rest in that respect.

[RandomGuy.]

Celtic pay Scott Brown more in a week than our entire first team gets paid in the same time.

"Value for money" on the domestic scene is an utterly pointless way of judging a Celtic squad, as  you're far too far in front for there to be any credible challenge unless you absolutely f**k it up. Running away with the league and winning the treble isn't an achievement, or shouldn't be.

[Davie Bhoy]

Irrelevant though. I'd argue that the most important position in a football club is the first team coach, which does not come under playing staff. The only way you can make a comparison on this is through total wage budgets. Celtic, through no fault of their own, are streets ahead of the rest in that respect.

It is relevant though. The insinuation was that we spent that amount on first team wages when it isn't the case. The hefty wages the directors are on from the money the groundsmen, stewards, catering staff etc etc are all lumped into that figure.

Anyway, like you said it's no fault of our own and the comparison isn't with other Scottish clubs it's with teams in Europe.

Maybe if 54 & counting wants to compare wage budgets he should look at his own club over the past 4-5 seasons. 2nd biggest wage bill in Scottish football for all that time. 4 attempts to win the prestigious Petrofac Cup, 2 attempts to get out the Championship, no major domestic cups won, languishing in 3rd in the league. Maybe he should compare wage budgets with the teams who did win some of those honours such as Hibs, Hearts, Inverness CT, St Johnstone, Livingston, Raith Rovers, QoS, Partick Thistle....or does the playing budget not count when it comes to his own club?

[KnightswoodBear]

14 hours ago, CityDave said:

 

But anyway is it not like nuking a little 2cm spider from orbit?

 

 

5 hours ago, BigFatTabbyDave said:

Pray KnightswoodBear never becomes Prime Minister.

It's the only way to be sure.

[Ross.]

2 hours ago, Davie Bhoy said:

 

It is relevant though. The insinuation was that we spent that amount on first team wages when it isn't the case. The hefty wages the directors are on from the money the groundsmen, stewards, catering staff etc etc are all lumped into that figure.

Anyway, like you said it's no fault of our own and the comparison isn't with other Scottish clubs it's with teams in Europe.

Maybe if 54 & counting wants to compare wage budgets he should look at his own club over the past 4-5 seasons. 2nd biggest wage bill in Scottish football for all that time. 4 attempts to win the prestigious Petrofac Cup, 2 attempts to get out the Championship, no major domestic cups won, languishing in 3rd in the league. Maybe he should compare wage budgets with the teams who did win some of those honours such as Hibs, Hearts, Inverness CT, St Johnstone, Livingston, Raith Rovers, QoS, Partick Thistle....or does the playing budget not count when it comes to his own club?

It's not relevant. Having a larger wage budget should mean you have a better quality of staff at all levels, not just on the park. It should give you an advantage in all areas. Granted, the example of Rangers and their waste in the last 5 years shows that it's not always the case, but generally speaking the bigger your wage bill, the better you are, irrespective of whether that is spending on better players, better coaches or better groundsmen.

[Dipped Flake]

16 hours ago, CityDave said:

Feast of Scottish football? you mean rest, ....like Motherwell and Hamilton? I can see that Partick Thistle might give you problems and I would if I was a Celtic fan seriously worry about Morton if they ever came up.

But anyway is it not like nuking a little 2cm spider from orbit? And what about the complaints over other teams unable to make the title race more competitive? How can any club in Scotland compete with that? 

But anyway you remind me of the Rangers fans who also didn't care about how much cash they went through to achieve success. As long as they got their fill of win and trophies it didn't matter.

 

in defence of celtic they are still making a lot more money than they spend. For the old rangers, they spent money they never had, and the new incarnation is doing exactly the same 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Dipped Flake
spelling

[54_and_counting]

9 hours ago, Dipped Flake said:

in defence of celtic they are still making a lot more money than they spend. For the old rangers, they spent money they never had, and the new incarnation is doing exactly the same 

aye but thats arguably down to the luck of the CL draw, had rodgers came up against a warsaw or molde this season he'd be preparing for a thursday night EL match the now instead of being papped out of europe with a game to spare

davie claims 2 points from 15 (likely 18) is an improvement, when the last time they were in the CL they got 3 point from 18 and most likely werent spending as much money

as i said, last season deila had a better record in the qualifiers, he was just unlucky that the final round came against a decent side in molde, and tbh it isnt really a knock at celtic (well it is as it would be for rangers given their spending prowess over teams like molde etc) but scottish teams will now always rely on luck in the european draws to make it through the qualifying rounds

[54_and_counting]

12 hours ago, Davie Bhoy said:

 

Maybe if 54 & counting wants to compare wage budgets he should look at his own club over the past 4-5 seasons. 2nd biggest wage bill in Scottish football for all that time. 4 attempts to win the prestigious Petrofac Cup, 2 attempts to get out the Championship, no major domestic cups won, languishing in 3rd in the league. Maybe he should compare wage budgets with the teams who did win some of those honours such as Hibs, Hearts, Inverness CT, St Johnstone, Livingston, Raith Rovers, QoS, Partick Thistle....or does the playing budget not count when it comes to his own club?

there's been plenty of discussions and threads about rangers overspend, of which ive called out since the start of mccoists reign as he was fucking useless, but this is a discussion about celtic spending that much and still relying on luck to actually hit the group stages, you can call it improvement if you want but if next season celtic get a tough draw and dont hit the group stages you'll be right back in here proclaiming bad luck in the draw and you know it (because its true as per my post above)

[Mordecai]

I reckon it's quite likely that Israel will be overtaking us before the season is over. Both Israeli teams aren't in the qualifying positions at the moment, but both are in contention to still go through. I'd say that Hapoel Be'er Sheva have a hard task away to Southampton in their last game to get a result, but I'm sure they'll be up for the game and won't make it easy for Southampton. Maccabi Tel Aviv are at home to Dundalk, so they'll be looking to win. If they win and Celtic don't beat Manchester City then Israel will be moving ahead of Scotland into 22nd place. Scotland won't have any further opportunities to gain any points this season, but I don't think we have to worry about being overtaken by Azerbaijan or Cyprus (Norway already have all of their teams knocked out).

Next season could be quite interesting with some countries (e.g. Sweden and Romania) due to lose relatively high scoring seasons. I really think that we need at least 2 teams in group stage competition to have any chance of making major inroads up the rankings table though.

[Davie Bhoy]

aye but thats arguably down to the luck of the CL draw, had rodgers came up against a warsaw or molde this season he'd be preparing for a thursday night EL match the now instead of being papped out of europe with a game to spare

Yet you don't factor in the luck of the draw giving us a nightmare group when you try to use our group results against us. Can't have it both ways.

davie claims 2 points from 15 (likely 18) is an improvement, when the last time they were in the CL they got 3 point from 18 and most likely werent spending as much money

Nice spin on the argument there. 2pts from 5 CL group games is far superior to 3pts from 6 EL group games. Last season we failed to make the CL, this season we did. Stevie Wonder can see the improvement from last season. Nobody is comparing our last time in the CL with now. This debate started out as a progress from last season. You flit between last season & our last time in the CL.

as i said, last season deila had a better record in the qualifiers, he was just unlucky that the final round came against a decent side in molde, and tbh it isnt really a knock at celtic (well it is as it would be for rangers given their spending prowess over teams like molde etc) but scottish teams will now always rely on luck in the european draws to make it through the qualifying rounds

It was Malmo we faced in the last qualifier...not Molde. It was Molde who ran away with our group. From having been at our games against Malmo, Qarabag & Astana, I can't understand why you claim that Malmo are somehow some great team. They aren't. They carried luck against an average Celtic side. Even this season, poor refereeing decisions were all that stopped Hibs from knocking them out of Europe.

[TheCelt67]

On Saturday, November 26, 2016 at 15:53, Davie Bhoy said:

 

Yet you don't factor in the luck of the draw giving us a nightmare group when you try to use our group results against us. Can't have it both ways.



Nice spin on the argument there. 2pts from 5 CL group games is far superior to 3pts from 6 EL group games. Last season we failed to make the CL, this season we did. Stevie Wonder can see the improvement from last season. Nobody is comparing our last time in the CL with now. This debate started out as a progress from last season. You flit between last season & our last time in the CL.



It was Malmo we faced in the last qualifier...not Molde. It was Molde who ran away with our group. From having been at our games against Malmo, Qarabag & Astana, I can't understand why you claim that Malmo are somehow some great team. They aren't. They carried luck against an average Celtic side. Even this season, poor refereeing decisions were all that stopped Hibs from knocking them out of Europe.

 

I think it was Brondby who knocked out Hibernian this season mate. 

[Davie Bhoy]

I think it was Brondby who knocked out Hibernian this season mate. 

Now you mention it, I think you're right. I watched their games well. Did Aberdeen not play Malmo?

[Ross.]

How does last nights draw leave us for next season?

[wastecoatwilly]

39 minutes ago, Ross. said:

How does last nights draw leave us for next season?

Celtic will still be seeded for the draw next season,but still 3 qualifiers in the champions route Celtic got more co-efficient points than the other 3 put together not good enough must do better. 

[Ross.]

Just now, wastecoatwilly said:

Celtic will still be seeded for the draw next season,but still 3 qualifiers in the champions route Celtic got more co-efficient points than the other 3 put together not good enough must do better. 

I was meaning the ranking for Scotland. I think as long as Legia lose again tonight, Scotland moves up a position?

[wastecoatwilly]

1 minute ago, Ross. said:

I was meaning the ranking for Scotland. I think as long as Legia lose again tonight, Scotland moves up a position?

still in 22nd but Israel could over take us can't catch Poland. 

[Mordecai]

5 hours ago, Ross. said:

I was meaning the ranking for Scotland. I think as long as Legia lose again tonight, Scotland moves up a position?

If Legia lose tonight then we'll finish 0.075 points behind Poland and as wastecoatwilly says Israel have a real chance of overtaking us on Thursday. If their two teams get the equivalent of a win (2 draws would do) between them then we'll be moving down to 23rd place. Overall it's an improvement on last season where we finished 25th on 17.3 points - we now have 18.925 points. However, at the start of next season we'll most likely be starting in 24th, so have a bit of catch up to do. As I've said before, I reckon we need two teams in group stage competition to get out of the early 20s and into the top 18.

[The OP]

On 11/23/2016 at 22:03, 54_and_counting said:

aye but thats arguably down to the luck of the CL draw, had rodgers came up against a warsaw or molde this season he'd be preparing for a thursday night EL match the now instead of being papped out of europe with a game to spare

davie claims 2 points from 15 (likely 18) is an improvement, when the last time they were in the CL they got 3 point from 18 and most likely werent spending as much money

as i said, last season deila had a better record in the qualifiers, he was just unlucky that the final round came against a decent side in molde, and tbh it isnt really a knock at celtic (well it is as it would be for rangers given their spending prowess over teams like molde etc) but scottish teams will now always rely on luck in the european draws to make it through the qualifying rounds

Hapoel Be'er Sheva through to the EL last 32, one of only two teams eliminated from the CL playoff round to manage out of the groups. Please tell us more about Celtic's easy draw in the qualifying rounds...

Edited December 8, 2016 by The OP