Coefficientwatch

[lionel hutz]

2 minutes ago, Menzel said:

*shudders*

Isn't that now the name for the Czech Republic?

[Menzel]

It's an additional name, not the name. It's horrendous. 

[lionel hutz]

1 hour ago, The_Gambler said:

Looking at the Europa League access list for this season, 18th place got entry to the third qualifying round for their cup winners. 

 

Anyone reckon this is achievable for next season?

 

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2017/accesslist/

Would need for Aberdeen and Celtic to both make group stages and for Celtic to make last 16 of the UCL.

Very Unlikely.

[lionel hutz]

1 minute ago, Menzel said:

It's an additional name, not the name. It's horrendous. 

It's no worse than Slovakia, though when I mentioned it to someone else they thought I was talking about Chechnya

[Menzel]

Slovakia as a name didn't almost die out in the 19th century. The majority of Czechs see this 'name' as a joke. Anyway, I'd be disappointed if Viktorka didn't pump Qarabag. 

Edited July 25, 2016 by Menzel

[lionel hutz]

1 minute ago, Menzel said:

Slovakia as a name didn't almost die out in the 19th century. The majority of Czechs see this 'name' as a joke. 

Fair Enough, I will use Czech Rep. from now on.

[realmadrid]

On 7/22/2016 at 14:06, NewHope said:

^^^Real Madrid, St Johnstone, Celtic and Whitecaps fan.

 

Sort your life out.

Corrected the original post now.

Certainly not an old firm fan.

[vikingTON]

Slovakia as a name didn't almost die out in the 19th century. The majority of Czechs see this 'name' as a joke. Anyway, I'd be disappointed if Viktorka didn't pump Qarabag. 

Slovakia didn't even exist as a concept in the 19th Century: that doesn't stop it and not 'the Slovak Republic' being the common title for the state today. Czechia is the correct, Anglicised translation of "česko", with a more credible background.

Carry on with the thread.

[TheScarf]

V, v, v, v, v, v, v, v proud to see my club on that list.

A club the envy of so many in this country.

[Menzel]

1 hour ago, vikingTON said:

 

Slovakia didn't even exist as a concept in the 19th Century: that doesn't stop it and not 'the Slovak Republic' being the common title for the state today. Czechia is the correct, Anglicised translation of "česko", with a more credible background.

Carry on with the thread.
 

 

Neither did a Czech nation, but that didn't stop Czech consciousness coming to a head midway through the nineteenth century, and the origins of a Slovak nation being discussed and documented as far back as 1792 (Heimann; Brock). Indeed 'Czechia' as a term goes even further back but was subsequently all but abandoned by the Czech revival going forward, referenced by it's abandonment of use in most academia. This doesn't stop most Czechs being puzzled at its reintroduction, mostly at the behest of the country's increasingly unpopular president. 

 

[Dipped Flake]

On 7/25/2016 at 11:38, The_Gambler said:

Looking at the Europa League access list for this season, 18th place got entry to the third qualifying round for their cup winners. 

 

Anyone reckon this is achievable for next season?

 

http://www.uefa.com/uefaeuropaleague/season=2017/accesslist/

it would be for the season after next. The coefficients at the end of last season are used for next years competitions. 

[vikingTON]

3 hours ago, Menzel said:

Neither did a Czech nation, but that didn't stop Czech consciousness coming to a head midway through the nineteenth century, and the origins of a Slovak nation being discussed and documented as far back as 1792 (Heimann; Brock). Indeed 'Czechia' as a term goes even further back but was subsequently all but abandoned by the Czech revival going forward, referenced by it's abandonment of use in most academia. This doesn't stop most Czechs being puzzled at its reintroduction, mostly at the behest of the country's increasingly unpopular president. 

 

For those who couldn't give a toss about this, don't open the spoiler and don't bother whining about it if you do.

Spoiler

 

I said Slovakia, not a 'Slovak nation': there was no concept of 'Slovakia' as a territory and therefore no use of 'Slovensko' as a term until the late nineteenth century. The wider area was known as 'Upper Hungary' - if it was even distinguished from the rest of Hungary - even in the Slovak language (as 'Horné Uhorsko'). As opposed to 'Czechia', which had already entered the English language, though was not very widely known. If one of those two terms is more artificial than the other, then it is 'Slovakia'. Only two decades of its existence as an independent state has normalised that word in English though: Czechia would be exactly the same. 

'Czechia' meanwhile wasn't abandoned at all: it is the literal translation of 'Česko', which exists to this day to describe the Czech state in the Czech language itself and in Slovak. It was also used to describe the state of Czechoslovakia (as 'Česko-Slovensko') in the periods 1918-20; 1938-9 and 1990-92). Even the combined term 'Československo', used for the majority of the state's existence, is just a merger of the two territorial names - 'Czechia and Slovakia'. The term was only ditched during the Nazi occupation of the rump Czechia between 1939 and 1945. Czech writers tried to use 'Bohemia' in the English language, but this largely died out after 1918, and is an inaccurate description that academics would not use for the entire territory of the current state. Or they used 'the Czech lands' in order to try and hide the fact that millions of Germans also lived on the territory until the 1940s. Neither of which are good reasons to discard Czechia, which holds a less distorted meaning than the terms they promoted.

As for wider Czech puzzlement, it's not that surprising that many people would be ignorant about the pretty obscure historical background for the different terms. That doesn't lead to a correct outcome though: and hardly anyone bothers to use anything but 'Česko' in the Czech language itself. The recommendation actually stemmed from the Czech Foreign and Education ministries in the late 1990s, but nobody bothered to do anything about it until now:

http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/Askave/media/Czechia_ambasaacutedaacutem1998_zpsc8d15528.jpg.html

http://s1360.photobucket.com/user/Askave/media/Czechia_ministerstvoscaronkolstviacute_zpsae80eccc.jpg.html

They were correct to recommend the term then and the current government is correct to implement it now, regardless of whether or not Zeman is a walloper.

 

 

[Menzel]

Aye, some interesting points and some stuff I disagree with there. A few things pertinent to my research too. Don't wish to derail the thread but happy to respond in another thread/PMs just to not derail it further with my shite. Let me know if you're interested. 

[lionel hutz]

3 minutes ago, Menzel said:

Aye, some interesting points and some stuff I disagree with there. A few things pertinent to my research too. Don't wish to derail the thread but happy to respond in another thread/PMs just to not derail it further with my shite. Let me know if you're interested. 

This would make for a decent group chat (can you do that on P&B?)

[lionel hutz]

Celtic and Aberdeen's draws have helped our coefficient, however after Legia's win, Scotland are no closer to Poland and after Qarabag and Qabala's draws we're no further ahead of Azerbaijan

Pos. -  Country - 16/17 - Total - Teams Left (Bold = CL)
15.  Croatia -  2.550 - 22.625 - 4/4 - Dinamo Zagreb, Rijeka, Hajduk Split, Lokomotiva Zagreb,
16.  Romania - 0.300 - 21.350 - 4/5 - Astra , Steaua Bucarest, Pandurii Targu Jiu, Viitorul Constanta
17.  Austria - 2.250 - 20.225 - 4/4 - RB Salzburg, Rapid Wien, Austria Wien, Admira Wacker
18.  Belarus - 2.875 - 19.750 - 3/4 - BATE, Torpedo Zhodino, Dinamo Minsk
19.  Sweden - 2.250 - 19.225 - 2/4 - AIK, IFK Goteburg
20.  Denmark - 3.120 -18.625 - 4/4 - FC Copenhagen, SonderjyskE, Midtjylland, Brondby
21.  Norway - 1.375 - 18.325 - 1/4 - Rosenborg BK
22.  Poland - 1.250 - 17.125 - 2/4 - Legia Warsaw, Zaglebie Lubin
23.  Scotland - 2.125 - 16.675 - 2/4 - Celtic, Aberdeen
24.  Azerbaijan - 2.125 - 15.625 - 2/4 - Qarabag, Qabala

The good news is that Poland look like they'll be down to a sole team in Europe as Zaglebie Lubin lost at home to SonderjyskE. If both Celtic and Aberdeen win next week and both Polish sides lose on the night Scotland will be up into 22nd place, and Scotland may gain a 1 pt bonus for Celtic's participation in the CL groups stages. Plus any wins or draws count double from then onwards. Whilst APOEL need to overturn a 2-1 deficit to prevent Rosenborg from doing the same. Further up the table Romania look like they will be down to just three teams as Viitorul and Pandurii suffered pastings against Genk and Maccabai. 

Edit: just noticed both Swedish sides lost tonight, they could easily lose all European competitors in this round.

Edited July 29, 2016 by Marr1

[Davie Bhoy]

Celtic and Aberdeen's draws have helped our coefficient, however after Legia's win, Scotland are no closer to Poland and after Qarabag and Qabala's draws we're no further ahead of Azerbaijan

Pos. -  Country - 16/17 - Total - Teams Left (Bold = CL)
15.  Croatia -  2.550 - 22.625 - 4/4 - Dinamo Zagreb, Rijeka, Hajduk Split, Lokomotiva Zagreb,
16.  Romania - 0.300 - 21.350 - 4/5 - Astra , Steaua Bucarest, Pandurii Targu Jiu, Viitorul Constanta
17.  Austria - 2.250 - 20.225 - 4/4 - RB Salzburg, Rapid Wien, Austria Wien, Admira Wacker
18.  Belarus - 2.875 - 19.750 - 3/4 - BATE, Torpedo Zhodino, Dinamo Minsk
19.  Sweden - 2.250 - 19.225 - 2/4 - AIK, IFK Goteburg
20.  Denmark - 3.120 -18.625 - 4/4 - FC Copenhagen, SonderjyskE, Midtjylland, Brondby
21.  Norway - 1.375 - 18.325 - 1/4 - Rosenborg BK
22.  Poland - 1.250 - 17.125 - 2/4 - Legia Warsaw, Zaglebie Lubin
23.  Scotland - 2.125 - 16.675 - 2/4 - Celtic, Aberdeen
24.  Azerbaijan - 2.125 - 15.625 - 2/4 - Qarabag, Qabala


The good news is that Poland look like they'll be down to a sole team in Europe as Zaglebie Lubin lost at home to SonderjyskE. If both Celtic and Aberdeen win next week and both Polish sides lose on the night Scotland will be up into 22nd place, and Scotland will gain a 0.5 or 1 pt bonus for Celtic's participation in the CL or EL groups stages. Plus any wins or draws count double from then onwards. Whilst APOEL need to overturn a 2-1 deficit to prevent Rosenborg from doing the same. Further up the table Romania look like they will be down to just three teams as Viitorul and Pandurii suffered pastings against Genk and Maccabai. 

Edit: just noticed both Swedish sides lost tonight, they could easily lose all European competitors in this round.

Cheers mate, like reading your updates on this. Usually too time consuming to work out for myself so your work here is appreciated.

[La_Leyenda]

33 minutes ago, Marr1 said:

Celtic and Aberdeen's draws have helped our coefficient, however after Legia's win, Scotland are no closer to Poland and after Qarabag and Qabala's draws we're no further ahead of Azerbaijan

Pos. -  Country - 16/17 - Total - Teams Left (Bold = CL)
15.  Croatia -  2.550 - 22.625 - 4/4 - Dinamo Zagreb, Rijeka, Hajduk Split, Lokomotiva Zagreb,
16.  Romania - 0.300 - 21.350 - 4/5 - Astra , Steaua Bucarest, Pandurii Targu Jiu, Viitorul Constanta
17.  Austria - 2.250 - 20.225 - 4/4 - RB Salzburg, Rapid Wien, Austria Wien, Admira Wacker
18.  Belarus - 2.875 - 19.750 - 3/4 - BATE, Torpedo Zhodino, Dinamo Minsk
19.  Sweden - 2.250 - 19.225 - 2/4 - AIK, IFK Goteburg
20.  Denmark - 3.120 -18.625 - 4/4 - FC Copenhagen, SonderjyskE, Midtjylland, Brondby
21.  Norway - 1.375 - 18.325 - 1/4 - Rosenborg BK
22.  Poland - 1.250 - 17.125 - 2/4 - Legia Warsaw, Zaglebie Lubin
23.  Scotland - 2.125 - 16.675 - 2/4 - Celtic, Aberdeen
24.  Azerbaijan - 2.125 - 15.625 - 2/4 - Qarabag, Qabala

The good news is that Poland look like they'll be down to a sole team in Europe as Zaglebie Lubin lost at home to SonderjyskE. If both Celtic and Aberdeen win next week and both Polish sides lose on the night Scotland will be up into 22nd place, and Scotland will gain a 0.5 or 1 pt bonus for Celtic's participation in the CL or EL groups stages. Plus any wins or draws count double from then onwards. Whilst APOEL need to overturn a 2-1 deficit to prevent Rosenborg from doing the same. Further up the table Romania look like they will be down to just three teams as Viitorul and Pandurii suffered pastings against Genk and Maccabai. 

Edit: just noticed both Swedish sides lost tonight, they could easily lose all European competitors in this round.

 

If Celtic get to the Champions League group stage, then it's a 4 point bonus.

There is no bonus for making the Europa League group stage.

[The_Gambler]

27 minutes ago, La_Leyenda said:

 

If Celtic get to the Champions League group stage, then it's a 4 point bonus.

There is no bonus for making the Europa League group stage.

 

4/4 = 1

Edited July 28, 2016 by The_Gambler

[lionel hutz]

56 minutes ago, La_Leyenda said:

 

If Celtic get to the Champions League group stage, then it's a 4 point bonus.

There is no bonus for making the Europa League group stage.

It's divided by four though, so it's a 1pt boost to the overall coefficient.

As for the EL, I was going by this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_coefficient#Club_coefficient

 

[lionel hutz]

I also was able to make this chart of each Scottish sides' rank in Europe from 1999-2018:

It only allowed for six teams per graph, so here is another one