Coefficientwatch

[ScoRoss]

It probably made absolutely no difference to the coefficient whether Hibs won or lost that shootout.  They would have been pumped by Hertha in both legs anyway.

You'd still earn points by being in the next round anyway.

On a side note, Hibs fans missed out on a great away trip there!

[shootingboots]

8 hours ago, HibeeJibee said:

In terms of progression only Hearts crashing out to the Maltese represents someone not playing to their seeding.

Believe it or not the Latvian mob were the seeds against us!

3 years in a row we've pumped out the seeds in round 2 (Groningen, Rijeka and last night).

 

[RandomGuy.]

6 hours ago, AberDon said:

We might not get through, but a 'hiding' is quite unlikely. 

 

We've beaten better teams in the recent past.

Theres no point debating anything with him, he spends his time on the TA section telling anyone who'll listen how dreadful everything about Scottish football is.

[FairWeatherFan]

4 hours ago, ScoRoss said:

 

You'd still earn points by being in the next round anyway.

On a side note, Hibs fans missed out on a great away trip there!

Bonus points occur in the Europa League from the Quarter final stage. For the Champions League they start from the group stage.

So if Hibs had been beaten in both legs by Hertha Berlin then they would of added nothing further to the coefficient.

I think if they had gotten to the next round, a draw in one of the legs wouldn't be entirely out of the question. Would of been a typically Scottish thing to do. An extra half point wouldn't of made much of difference in the grand scheme of things though.

Edited July 22, 2016 by FairWeatherFan
spelling

[Davie Bhoy]

Makes for grim reading

[Mordecai]

45 minutes ago, Davie Bhoy said:

Makes for grim reading

 

That's not up to date. As it currently stands it's:

46 - Celtic

200 - Aberdeen, Motherwell

205 - St Johnstone

231 - Hearts

274 - Hibs, Dundee United

301 - Inverness

 

Still not much better tbh, but I do expect Aberdeen to rise next year as they'll be losing a poor season. To put Hearts loss into perspective, Birkirkara are currently ranked 300th.

 

[sergie's no1 fan]

6 minutes ago, Mordecai said:

 

That's not up to date. As it currently stands it's:

46 - Celtic

200 - Aberdeen, Motherwell

205 - St Johnstone

231 - Hearts

274 - Hibs, Dundee United

301 - Inverness

 

Still not much better tbh, but I do expect Aberdeen to rise next year as they'll be losing a poor season. To put Hearts loss into perspective, Birkirkara are currently ranked 300th.

 

If ICT are ranked 301 does that not make the Hearts result look a bit better? Would it be that big a shock if ICT got the better of Hearts over 2 games?

[FairWeatherFan]

Right now tied for 100th are Leicester City & Wigan Athletic. Also notice that in 89th are Celta Vigo who have qualified for Europe this season, their first time since 2006-07.

 

All the team ranking does is illustrate how difficult it is for a club from a lesser league to gain any sort of traction. Aberdeen, I think most would agree, have done relatively well the last three years. Got to the Third Qualifying Round from the First. Beating a seeded team along the way each year. Yet they don't really have anything to show for it.

[DiegoDiego]

18 minutes ago, sergie's no1 fan said:

If ICT are ranked 301 does that not make the Hearts result look a bit better? Would it be that big a shock if ICT got the better of Hearts over 2 games?

Birkirkara have played in European competition every season this century so they've had far more games to generate points from than ICT. Prior to this season they'd won only two of their last seventeen ties (against Andorran and Armenian opposition).

[Faddy88]

Because it's a 5 year average, also the reason we're still up their as we got a shit ton of points just for being in the CL qualifiers, regardless of the result.  Its why its good to see Aberdeen making Europe time after time, most seasons its been musical chairs for the teams outwith the old firm for who qualifies, and leads to our clubs having poor club coefficients and poor seedings.  If they make it next season Aberdeen will finally be seeded in QR2, and if they get to playoffs both seasons, there's a good chance the season after that they'll be seeded in QR3.  

Hibs would've gotten some club coefficient points for being in the next round, but the country wouldn't receive any, and its unlikely the extra points for them will make a difference any time soon.

[sergie's no1 fan]

8 minutes ago, DiegoDiego said:

Birkirkara have played in European competition every season this century so they've had far more games to generate points from than ICT. Prior to this season they'd won only two of their last seventeen ties (against Andorran and Armenian opposition).

Fair do's that explains that, it's a minter. Just listened to the Sportssound podcast and the captain was saying most of the club is run by volunteers and some of the players have 2 jobs.

0-0 away from home in the 1st leg is just as bad as a 1-1 at home. Away goals are vital. 

[Doonhamer doon south]

So much of scottish teams struggles in europe I believe is pre season has barely started and luck of the draw. Both hearts and celtic have drawn in theory easy teams but have struggled to break the teams down and struggled with heat, fitness and match sharpness.

I like the look of the league cup changes and I think it will help to slowly raise the quality of teams below the premiership. But because the teams who qualified for Europe don't play in the group stage those teams are still left at a disadvantage and rely on friendlies to bring them up to speed.

Could those teams who qualify for Europe have a sort of round Robin tournament amongst themselves. Bit of silverware for winner keep the ticket prices as low as possible to get bums on seats. Home and away is probably overkill but as a mini league that's three matches. A big downside to this is that it's likely to be yet another old firm game or more premiership teams meeting premiership teams and will get bit over the top as each season wears on but only an idea on how to fix/manage the problem with early qualification rounds. This probably wouldn't work realistically but any other ideas out there???

[FairWeatherFan]

Motherwell 8 games in Europe with a single official draw. Knocked out in the Playoff Round, Third Qualifying Round and Second Qualifying Round = 3 bonus points to add to the national average.

Aberdeen 16 games and counting with 7 wins & 5 draws. Minimum of 3 knock outs in the Third Qualifying Round = 3 bonus points to add to the national average.

This is one of the things that I forgot about. Points accrued by a club in qualifying only add to the national average not their own seeding.

[The_Gambler]

17 minutes ago, Doonhamer doon south said:

So much of scottish teams struggles in europe I believe is pre season has barely started and luck of the draw. Both hearts and celtic have drawn in theory easy teams but have struggled to break the teams down and struggled with heat, fitness and match sharpness.

I like the look of the league cup changes and I think it will help to slowly raise the quality of teams below the premiership. But because the teams who qualified for Europe don't play in the group stage those teams are still left at a disadvantage and rely on friendlies to bring them up to speed. 

FC Fola, Birkirkara and Lincoln Red Imps have not started their season either so this it's too early in the season excuse that is trotted out is nonsense. 

[ScottishZizou]

Aberdeen have done fairly impressively in Europe over the last couple of years. I think we have to be ambitious in that we should be aiming to get to 15th (which would be impressive for a country our size) but give ourselves a target of 5-10 years to do so. The first step in doing this is to slowly climb a place or two a year which could initially be done by just consistently winning when we obviously should be (no miracle stuff required). We have to be realistic with where we are at just now though, some people complaining we have to play too many qualifiers, we need to lose our sense of entitlement, if we do go out to Maribor then we ultimately deserve to be playing these preliminary rounds as we can't beat the second best team from Slovenia over two legs, Hearts with Malta and hibs with denmark. Its hardly footballing powerhouses. I'm not saying there's great shame in that but it's just a reminder of where we are. I'd place us v Maribor as 50/50 given our recent European form.

[NewHope]

16 hours ago, realmadrid said:

No its the result on the night at the end of 90 or 120 minutes. Penalties don't count for coefficient.
We Celtic drew 0-0 home and away with Milan then lost aet they got 1 point (in main competition ) and Milan got 3.

^^^Real Madrid, St Johnstone, Celtic and Whitecaps fan.

 

Sort your life out.

[ssdon]

With Celtic winning on Wednesday, Aberdeen winning the early game yesterday and then Hibs being 1-0 up I thought it was going to be a really good week for Scotland in Europe for once. I did not see Hearts losing at home but they did and then Hibs lost on pens.

To only have 1 team left in Q3 of the EL is not good, Hibs always had a tough game but Hearts who last season were 3rd best in Scotland should not be losing that game.

Aberdeen and Celtic both have tough games in the next round and it is possible both will lose, that will leave Celtic in the EL again.

For me and this will not be popular but for the Scottish rankings to get better we need 2 teams qualifying each year for either of the competitions and that will be Rangers and Celtic most likely. I expect Rangers to be back in Europe next season and most likely getting past Q2, in a few years they probably will be in a place where to can challenge for group stages.

 

 

[tarapoa]

4 minutes ago, ssdon said:

For me and this will not be popular but for the Scottish rankings to get better we need 2 teams qualifying each year for either of the competitions and that will be Rangers and Celtic most likely. I expect Rangers to be back in Europe next season and most likely getting past Q2, in a few years they probably will be in a place where to can challenge for group stages.

 

 

The former rangers last effort in Europe saw them papped out by Malmo and then Maribor in pre-qualifiers - and this was when Scots clubs started at a later stage.

A lot of the credit in the bank for that had come from an era where EBTs were helping them - and also Celtic were doing better, and Aberdeen had a good season too, therefore 2 CL qualifiers and later entry into the UEFA/EL.

If Sevco make it into Europe, I see nothing that currently suggests they will be some kind of saviour.  Hearts actually looked better equipped to do something, and they failed (not forgetting Hearts were miles ahead of Sevco in the diddy league a couple of seasons back).

Do not buy into the myth perpetrated by the mainstream media and desperate sevconians that they're here to save us from some kind of 'armageddon'.

[Faddy88]

Yea this is the same Rangers team that won only 1 of their last 25 games in Europe, they were a big part of us falling down the rankings like we did.

[FairWeatherFan]

Important to keep in mind there's talk about restructuring the competitions again. Getting back in to the Top 15 might not have the same benefits by the time we can get there.