Clown Job Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 1 minute ago, AJF said: And what about phrases such as Dirty Orange B, which this Sean McDonald is alleged to have used? Is that also perfectly acceptable? Don't get me wrong, this is a sad yet predictable outcome to the article, but don't make it seem as though it only goes one way. Whether I'm accused of whataboutery or not, you can't condemn one side but give others a pass just because they've been targeted in retaliation. The OO isn’t a religion, it’s a hate group. It might be distasteful, but it’s not anti protestant It would be similar to accusing someone of being anti white if they made a remark about you being a member of the KKK Reality is, this is all about whataboutery, because for the first time in my living memory it’s becoming unacceptable to use anti catholic/ Irish slurs, and some people are refusing to accept that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbix Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 38 minutes ago, Clown Job said: We can probably guess why he was being targeted, he “wan a them” That’s all they need Edit: Not I can see why they’ve put so much time and effort into the big lie that the H word is anti protestant. Not because they feel discriminated against, so they could weaponise it like we have been seeing over the last few days Seems more likely that they’re just trawling bylines and he was employed by the Record? Not exactly laser focussed is it? Focus on his tweets seems to be the one where he was anticipating suicides and had the popcorn ready to watch? Is that weaponisation as well? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 Just now, Orbix said: Seems more likely that they’re just trawling bylines and he was employed by the Record? Not exactly laser focussed is it? Focus on his tweets seems to be the one where he was anticipating suicides and had the popcorn ready to watch? Is that weaponisation as well? See my comment about whataboutery 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Clown Job said: The OO isn’t a religion, it’s a hate group. It might be distasteful, but it’s not anti protestant It would be similar to accusing someone of being anti white if they made a remark about you being a member of the KKK Reality is, this is all about whataboutery, because for the first time in my living memory it’s becoming unacceptable to use anti catholic/ Irish slurs, and some people are refusing to accept that. The Orange Order is a religious group. Whether that includes hateful policies doesn't change that fact. Additionally, his full (alleged) tweet reads: "Sectarianism is so stupid. I wish Catholics and dirty orange b******s could all just get along together". It is quite clear here that he is meaning Protestants when referencing the sectarian divide with Catholics. It has never been acceptable to use anti-catholic/irish slurs, it's just been problematic to eradicate it and warped people are often set in their ways. Again though, that doesn't excuse the comments made by others that have been found in retaliation, regardless of how pitiful it may seem. Edited September 6, 2021 by AJF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbix Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, Clown Job said: See my comment about whataboutery I’ve not argued that people shouldn’t be banned or face sanction for their behaviour because Record employees are also guilty of doing the same, and repeatedly made that point, so how is it whataboutery? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) 14 minutes ago, AJF said: The Orange Order is a religious group. Whether that includes hateful policies doesn't change that fact. Additionally, his full (alleged) tweet reads: Sectarianism is so stupid. I wish Catholics and dirty orange b******s could all just get along together". It is quite clear here that he is meaning Protestants when referencing the sectarian divide with Catholics. It has never been acceptable to use anti-catholic/irish slurs, it's just been problematic to eradicate it and warped people are often set in their ways. Again though, that doesn't excuse the comments made by others that have been found in retaliation, regardless of how pitiful it may seem. The OO is a hate group. Don't try and normalise them I don’t even know this Sean McDonald character, but you and others seem determined to use him to help push your whataboutery agenda We don’t even have a sectarian divide in Scotland, Catholics only make up something like 15% of the population and for generations have suffered from widespread abuse and discrimination Its not and never has been a two way street. We have annual anti catholic hate marches in this country, so don’t tell me it’s never been acceptable to use anti catholic/Irish slurs. Of course it was acceptable, It’s never been attempted in any meaningful way to eradicate it Doing nothing can make things difficult It wasn’t that long ago having certain names or going to certain schools would exclude you from jobs and housing in this country. Edited September 6, 2021 by Clown Job 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 5 minutes ago, Orbix said: I’ve not argued that people shouldn’t be banned or face sanction for their behaviour because Record employees are also guilty of doing the same, and repeatedly made that point, so how is it whataboutery? Read my comment about the big lie again 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbix Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 2 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Read my comment about the big lie again If you’re going to argue with footnotes could you do me a favour and link them? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williemillersmoustache Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I thought the Dirty Orange b*****ds thing was in relation to robust-tackling Dutch players who were conceived out of wedlock. Every day a school day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 (edited) 15 minutes ago, Clown Job said: The OO is a hate group. Don't try and normalise them I don’t even know this Sean McDonald character, but you and others seem determined to use help to help push your whataboutery agenda We don’t even have a sectarian divide in Scotland, Catholics only make up something like 15% of the population and for generations have suffered from widespread abuse and discrimination Its not and never has been a two way street. We have annual anti catholic hate marches in this country, so don’t tell me it’s never been acceptable to use anti catholic/Irish slurs. Of course it was acceptable, It’s never been attempted in any meaningful way to eradicate it Doing nothing can make things difficult It wasn’t that long ago having certain names or going to certain schools would exclude you from jobs and housing in this country. I am not trying to normalise them, but by the very definition of requiring someone to believe in god and be Protestant to join, they are a religious group. I am not detracting from any of their hateful policies or actions in saying this, it is simply a fact. I am not determined to use this chap to push any agenda, I never even brought him up in the topic (it was actually a Celtic fan who did) and I have no inclination to make his life difficult. I was countering your assertion that he had not been sectarian in what he said. I've already condemned the tweets of those that were exposed and have made it clear on many occasions that this has descended into a completely sad yet predictable farce, but ultimately, that does not excuse someone of sectarian insults regardless if this was uncovered through malice or retaliation which you do not seem to agree with. Your point that only 15% of the population being Catholic is an interesting one given that less than 1% of the population will be members of the OO. Nobody is arguing Catholics have not been persecuted or mistreated. But do you really believe that all insults regarding Dirty Orange Bs are aimed at the OO only which make up a fraction of the population, or do you think it is fair to say that some people will be meaning Protestants as well? Edited September 6, 2021 by AJF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naegoodinthedark Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 The international break is always particularly hard on this thread. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genuine Hibs Fan Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I met Sean McDonald a few times c.7 years ago and he was a bit of a dick if that helps? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacksgranda Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 I'm giving up reading this until there's an actual match to discuss 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 2 hours ago, AJF said: And what about phrases such as Dirty Orange B, which this Sean McDonald is alleged to have used? Is that also perfectly acceptable? Don't get me wrong, this is a sad yet predictable outcome to the article, but don't make it seem as though it only goes one way. Whether I'm accused of whataboutery or not, you can't condemn one side but give others a pass just because they've been targeted in retaliation. Think his biggest tweet issue is one sharing of a picture saying suicide watch with a Celtic fan sitting on a chair watching a Rangers fan hanging himself he appears to advertise himself as someone who does talks discussing mental health so he has been a total idiot there 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dundee Hibernian Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 3 hours ago, AJF said: I am not trying to normalise them, but by the very definition of requiring someone to believe in god and be Protestant to join, they are a religious group. What about (ery) The Catholic Orangemen of Togo? The point being missed, maybe ignored here is the involvement of the football club, or is it the company (?), in encouraging racism. All the worse given relatively recent events at Ibrox involving Slavia Prague. If we all try hard we'd probably be able to find every club in Scotland has employed people who have made idiotic racist comments, posts or tweets at some stage in the past. The difference at Ibrox is the club wilfully associates themselves with groups and individuals presently who are sectarian xenophobes , and engage in symbolism which appeals to this type of supporter. They must do this to provide profits, as the alternative is the club's custodians themselves are driven by racism. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenlantern Posted September 6, 2021 Share Posted September 6, 2021 The Orange Order is a religious group. Whether that includes hateful policies doesn't change that fact. Additionally, his full (alleged) tweet reads: "Sectarianism is so stupid. I wish Catholics and dirty orange b******s could all just get along together".It is quite clear here that he is meaning Protestants when referencing the sectarian divide with Catholics.It’s not quite clear that is his meaning tho is it?Not all protestants hate catholics, and vice versa. However, the OO do have a clear distain and agenda.It’s very much a slur and not a protected characteristic, similar to calling a Celtic fan brendan bombthrower or some sort of terrorist. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kincardine Posted September 7, 2021 Author Share Posted September 7, 2021 On 05/09/2021 at 10:15, keithgy said: Can you all please not bypass the word filter please,Div went to great lengths with Nil By Mouth when setting it up and bypassing will result in warnings and Bans if it continues. We all know what the word is when it comes up when *** comes up so no need for it folks,this morning alone we have had over a dozen reports from a Guest account and we all know who that is and a couple of them were warranted The strong implication is that it was me and it certainly wasn't. The idea that I'd use a guest account to report on this is preposterous. The term has become unacceptable and for me to hide behind a guest account to say so is a ridiculous notion. Glad that you're reinforcing forum guidelines on it, though. A welcome and positive move. -2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tree house tam Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 Imagine bringing your bigotedness to a football match, then rejoicing in it. Minter. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlipperyP Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 5 hours ago, The_Kincardine said: The strong implication is that it was me and it certainly wasn't. The idea that I'd use a guest account to report on this is preposterous. The term has become unacceptable and for me to hide behind a guest account to say so is a ridiculous notion. Glad that you're reinforcing forum guidelines on it, though. A welcome and positive move. I think he means Stormzy. Well I just read 20 pages, that was a little crazy, embarrassing and all a bit childish. Great read! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Brees Posted September 7, 2021 Share Posted September 7, 2021 10 minutes ago, TheBruce said: Much denial and self loathing as usual as the pissing contest continues. Why the f**k as a tax paying atheist as most of Scotland are, should I be footing the bill for state funded faith schools that divide society and discriminate against non catholic teachers? Ah but...! Anyone wanting faith school education, then go and pay for them yourselves. Ah but...! Have the schools bern mentioned yet?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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