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Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2022-2023


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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

Is there any other country in the world that would be having this kind of post detailing historical events from over 300 years which have zero relevance to football, on a football forum? By the way, unique doesn’t always equal good.

Don't blame me - I didn't initiate this discussion.  This was your diddy pals who seem to have an irrational hatred of floot bons.

Edited by The_Kincardine
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1 hour ago, The_Kincardine said:

You're right to say that the OO in Scotland isn't anti-Catholic but you're wrong to say that it promotes the Protestant Ascendancy.  Why would it?  The Ascendancy in Ireland was, largely, not a general Protestant notion but a specifically Episcopalian (generally Church of Ireland) one which gave members of the then established church hegemony in political and economic affairs.  

The OO in Scotland - where The Ascendancy was never a thing - was always Presbyterian in nature and by the time of its formation in the early 19th C The Ascendancy in Ireland was all but finished anyway.

Scotland's OO celebrates, primarily, the Battle of the Boyne which, as any fule kno, has two significances.  Firstly, it was the first victory for the nascent League of Augsburg.  The League being, initially, an alliance between England, Holland and the Holy Roman Empire - backed by His Holiness Pope Clement - against the machinations of the dastardly French.  Secondly, it was the turning point of the Williamite Revolution as it pretty-much ended the aspirations of the hapless James VII - backed by said French - to regain the crowns of Scotland and England and to, subsequently, reimpose the empty-headed notion of Absolute Monarchy.  The Boyne, thus, secured William and Mary's positions as constitutional monarchs of both Scotland and England, under the suzerainty of both parliaments.  The logical outcome of this led, delightfully, to the Kingdoms of Scotland and England merging to form a new nation - that of Great Britain - in 1707.

So when Orange Lodges go for a wee dauner each July they are celebrating two of the things that right-thinking people of good will in Britain hold dear:  The independence of Parliament free from arbitrary authority and the establishment of Britain as a unitary nation-state.  Yes it's a pity that some of the independent musicians they hire to help them celebrate and some of the crowd who follow them can be unsavoury or, occasionally, criminal and I know this embarrasses the Lodges.  But let's not condemn the whole barrel for the sake of a few pieces of rotten fruit.

^^^ David Healy’s thought process when he did a flute gesture against Celtic for fulham.

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1 hour ago, kingjoey said:

Roamin' in the Gloamin' anyone?

I think you will find i was pretty quick to condemn anyone singing that song in the relevant match threads on here.
I also did the same on twitter it’s a fucking horrible song as should be nowhere near a football game.

I’m hardly a shrinking violet when it comes to calling this shit out in both directions

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1 hour ago, Thistle_do_nicely said:

Genuinely tuned out and started reading this in rentons voice about halfway through

Edit: "lets not condemn the whole barrel for a few pieces of rotten fruit" - this is a pet hate of mine, ive seen phrases like this misused more and more often recently, big example coming to mind iirc joe biden going "oh its just a few bad apples" with regards to police officers engaging in misconduct. Its *precisely the point* that a few bad apples/rotten fruit contaminate everything, and might have a lasting impression on younger fans...

 

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Posted (edited)

Back to the football.  Rangers U19s beat Glasgow City 4-2 on penalties to lift the league cup:

Their U16 counterparts are 2-1 up against Aberdeen at Broadwood at HT in their league cup final.

Meanwhile, at Auchenhowie, Rangers Women are leading the Jam Tarts Fruit Pastries 3-0 at HT.

Prile of wins for Rangers Women on the cards.

 

 

Edited by The_Kincardine
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2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

Don't blame me - I didn't initiate this discussion.  This was your diddy pals who seem to have an irrational hatred of floot bons.

Fair enough, although to not put most of blame on AJF could be considered negligence. Strange, because like yourself, he's normally one of the good(ish) guys on here.

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2 hours ago, Jinky67 said:

I think you will find i was pretty quick to condemn anyone singing that song in the relevant match threads on here.
I also did the same on twitter it’s a fucking horrible song as should be nowhere near a football game.

I’m hardly a shrinking violet when it comes to calling this shit out in both directions

I know you're not, so fair dos.  But I did explain my reasoning on an earlier post.

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2 hours ago, The_Kincardine said:

My knowledge of Scottish history is ok but far from perfect.  You're welcome to update me on when, in the 19th C, Catholic worship in Scotland was forbidden and when the Grand Orange Lodge of Scotland campaigned against, "any legislation allowing Catholic worship".


I didn’t mention Scotland specifically and I’m unsure if you are choosing the hill of pedantry to die on or genuinely unaware and hopefully it’s the latter as that may show you up as as a dinosaur In terms of both age and thinking.

But yes Kinky Bhoy, Catholic emancipation, a process that started in the late 18th century with the Catholic Relief Act and finalised in the 19th century with full restoration of civil rights for Catholics, a process that the Orange Order vehemently protested and rioted against.

Its a genuine minter that people still defend the OO and suggest it wasn’t and isn’t anti Catholic, f**k me they only allowed members to enter a Catholic Church for the first time a few years back and even then there was strong opposition to it 🤦‍♂️

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Summary of today's football from the distaff side of Ibrox:

= Rangers 6-0 Hearts.  Keeps us 2 points ahead of GC - who also won 6-0 - with a game in hand.
= Rangers U19 3-3 GC U19.  Won 4-2 on penalties to lift the league cup.
= Rangers U16 9-1 Aberdeen to lift the league cup.  OK it's a big score but 8 of that team played for Scotland U17s in a 4-way tournament in Albania earlier in the month winning 6-0, 9-0, 6-0 with 19 of those goals coming from Rangers players.  We have some real talent in that age group.

Edited by The_Kincardine
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7 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Your club literally led with a tagline of "this is our city" at the same time as revelling in being a "Catholic club".

Any form of research shows you what those words mean in Glasgow in a Catholic v Protestant context.

Your fans still regularly sing "Roamin in the Gloamin" too, which the club does nothing about.

That's ignoring the fact that Celtic put as much effort into making sure they have the Irish tricolor on their strip in some form as Rangers do to have Orange in their team wear. Both clubs know the Catholic v Protestant angle makes them money so both promote it.

Trying to excuse yourselves from a two way rivalry that's encouraged sectarianism/bigotry from both sides for decades is just a pathetic attempt at pretending its not your problem to solve.

That's what the problem is imo. You say putting a tricolour on a strip is in the same category as orangism. That's why you can't ban Rangers from encouraging orangism because you would have to be even handed and ban the "Irishism" at Celtic. And to people not from Scotland that would obviously make it seem like it has serious anti-Irish issues. If you accept they're 2 different issues then you can tackle them in different ways. Pretending they are the same prevents anything being done. 

Putting an Irish tricolour or a Harp on a football strip is no more anti-protestant than St Johnstone's badge being anti-Catholic. Being Irish/Catholic doesn't make you anti-protestant but of course it suits the British media to push the narrative that resistance to their occupation was because the Irish hate protestants. I would disagree that "this is our city" is anti-protestant but maybe because I'm biased i don't see it. Another of the club's taglines is "open to all" which has as much relevance to reality. But yes I take your point on the roaming in the gloaming song, anyone singing it should be banned and if it continues the club cannot keep turning a blind eye. 

But I didn't try and say it's a one way street, all I'm saying is that it's not 2 equal and opposite things. Of course in the UK, the media will be happy to peddle the idea that Irish Republicanism was anti-protestant, which is fine, but if you want to actually tackle the issue then you would have to be more clever about it but yeah that's probably a long way away 

Edited by Antony
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2 minutes ago, Antony said:

That's what the problem is imo. You say putting a tricolour on a strip is in the same category as orangism. That's why you can't ban Rangers from encouraging orangism because you would have to be even handed and ban the "Irishism" at Celtic. And to people not from Scotland that would obviously make it seem like it has serious anti-Irish issues. If you accept they're 2 different issues then you can tackle them in different ways. Pretending they are the same prevents anything being done. 

Putting an Irish tricolour or a Harp on a football strip is no more anti-protestant than St Johnstone's badge being anti-Catholic. Being Irish/Catholic doesn't make you anti-protestant but of course it suits the British media to push the narrative that resistance to their occupation was because the Irish hate protestants. I would disagree that "this is our city" is anti-protestant but maybe because I'm biased i don't see it. Another of the club's taglines is "open to all" which has as much relevance to reality. But yes I take your point on the roaming in the gloaming song. 

But I didn't try and say it's a one way street, all I'm saying is that it's not 2 equal and opposite things. Of course in the UK, the media will be happy to peddle the idea that Irish Republicanism was anti-protestant, which is fine, but if you want to actually tackle the issue then you would have to be more clever about it but yeah that's probably a long way away 

How are you getting on with the anti-imperialism stuff I asked you about?

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8 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

How are you getting on with the anti-imperialism stuff I asked you about?

I didn't understand your point sorry. They celebrate Irish independence which is obviously a bit of a no no in Scotland as it involved booting the British Empire out of Ireland. Maybe if they wrote a thesis on the issue they could highlight each country's individual role. But I was just talking about them waving a tricolour or singing the Soldier Song. 

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5 minutes ago, Antony said:

I didn't understand your point sorry. They celebrate Irish independence which is obviously a bit of a no no in Scotland as it involved booting the British Empire out of Ireland. Maybe if they wrote a thesis on the issue they could highlight each country's individual role. But I was just talking about them waving a tricolour or singing the Soldier Song. 

That comes as no surprise.

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19 minutes ago, Antony said:

That's what the problem is imo. You say putting a tricolour on a strip is in the same category as orangism. That's why you can't ban Rangers from encouraging orangism because you would have to be even handed and ban the "Irishism" at Celtic. And to people not from Scotland that would obviously make it seem like it has serious anti-Irish issues. If you accept they're 2 different issues then you can tackle them in different ways. Pretending they are the same prevents anything being done. 

Putting an Irish tricolour or a Harp on a football strip is no more anti-protestant than St Johnstone's badge being anti-Catholic. Being Irish/Catholic doesn't make you anti-protestant but of course it suits the British media to push the narrative that resistance to their occupation was because the Irish hate protestants. I would disagree that "this is our city" is anti-protestant but maybe because I'm biased i don't see it. Another of the club's taglines is "open to all" which has as much relevance to reality. But yes I take your point on the roaming in the gloaming song. 

But I didn't try and say it's a one way street, all I'm saying is that it's not 2 equal and opposite things. Of course in the UK, the media will be happy to peddle the idea that Irish Republicanism was anti-protestant, which is fine, but if you want to actually tackle the issue then you would have to be more clever about it but yeah that's probably a long way away 

I said something similar a while back in the cricket thread, but celebrating Irish heritage is still seen as something very negative in Scottish society 

Unlike other cultures in Scotland

Things are changing because these sort of attitudes are not really as socially acceptable anymore, but it can still linger 

As someone with what you might perceive with an Irish background because of my name, I’ve lost count the number of times in the past I have been abused simply because my name makes me “one of them” despite me having no Irish connection. 

It does give the impression that despite being a Scot, you’re never truly accepted as one to some in our society 

I can totally understand why people of Irish heritage will look towards that first and foremost as a result, but those that do are labelled as “plastics”

You don’t hear that sort of label aimed at Asian Scots for example 

Look at the abuse McGeady and McCarthy suffered because they wanted to play for Ireland.

Anything that is seen as remotely Irish will send some people into a seething mess. 

 

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7 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

That comes as no surprise.

Ok well how should they focus on Scotland's role in slavery and Ireland's role in the Empire. The writing on that banner would be too small I think. Also the Green Brigade did recently highlight Glasgow's role in slavery by renaming Street names in Glasgow City Centre. But you win that argument, I don't get the relevance sorry. 

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4 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

I said something similar a while back in the cricket thread, but celebrating Irish heritage is still seen as something very negative in Scottish society 

Absolute nonsense.  Really imbecilic stuff from you.  Especially on a part of the thread discussing an organisation such as the Orange Order whose Irish branch is firmly rooted in Irish culture.

2 minutes ago, Antony said:

Ok well how should they focus on Scotland's role in slavery and Ireland's role in the Empire. T

So you understood my point perfectly well.  

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3 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

I said something similar a while back in the cricket thread, but celebrating Irish heritage is still seen as something very negative in Scottish society 

Unlike other cultures in Scotland

Things are changing because these sort of attitudes are not really as socially acceptable anymore, but it can still linger 

As someone with what you might perceive with an Irish background because of my name, I’ve lost count the number of times in the past I have been abused simply because my name makes me “one of them” despite me having no Irish connection. 

It does give the impression that despite being a Scot, you’re never truly accepted as one to some in our society 

I can totally understand why people of Irish heritage will look towards that first and foremost as a result, but those that do are labelled as “plastics”

You don’t hear that sort of label aimed at Asian Scots for example 

Look at the abuse McGeady and McCarthy suffered because they wanted to play for Ireland.

Anything that is seen as remotely Irish will send some people into a seething mess. 

 

The post I quoted kind of proves the issue and is why a lot of Irish people have reservations about Scotland despite the 2 having similar histories. Celtic celebrating their Irish heritage with a tricolour on a strip is not in any way negative to me. But seeing people say that the flag of the Irish nation is promoting anti-protestantism is just bizarre, but that's obviously a useful narrative to push.

No one fought for civil rights, they fought because they hate protestants and the British way of life. Couldn't be further from the truth but that's obviously the view over in Scotland. 

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42 minutes ago, The_Kincardine said:

Of course you didn't because you know your daft wee outburst had heehaw to do with Scotland.

So are you saying Catholic emancipation didn’t in fact happen also in Scotland and it didn’t really take another 50 years for the Catholic Church to re-establish itself in Scotland after being essentially outlawed for a couple of centuries?

Are you now in a funny twist of take denying the reformation even happened? 😂

Minter 😂

Edited by Jinky67
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  • The_Kincardine changed the title to Follow Follow Rangers. Season 2022-2023

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