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1 minute ago, AJF said:

I’m not saying he doesn’t know what he is doing, I’m saying making a gesture of a flute isn’t itself bigoted in my opinion.

So if he pulled out a white hood and pretended he was in the Klan, you wouldn’t consider that a racist gesture? 

The guy has been doing bigoted and racist gestures for decades now, yet people will still try and give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

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2 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

So if he pulled out a white hood and pretended he was in the Klan, you wouldn’t consider that a racist gesture? 

The guy has been doing bigoted and racist gestures for decades now, yet people will still try and give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

This post reflects more on you than it does him.

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5 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

So if he pulled out a white hood and pretended he was in the Klan, you wouldn’t consider that a racist gesture? 

The guy has been doing bigoted and racist gestures for decades now, yet people will still try and give him the benefit of the doubt.

 

Well, I would consider that a racist gesture considering the KKK are/were an openly racist white supremacist group. Everyone that joins the KKK is a racist. Not everyone that uses a flute to celebrate their faith is a bigot (obviously some will be).

Edit: I’m not saying Gascoigne isn’t a bigot, I’m saying a flute gesture shouldn’t be considered bigoted and it doesn’t show any intolerance to a different faith.

Edited by AJF
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Well, I would consider that a racist gesture considering the KKK are/were an openly racist white supremacist group. Everyone that joins the KKK is a racist. Not everyone that uses a flute to celebrate their faith is a bigot (obviously some will be).
Edit: I’m not saying Gascoigne isn’t a bigot, I’m saying a flute gesture shouldn’t be considered bigoted and it doesn’t show any intolerance to a different faith.
The context of it, which is to bring a religious gesture into a football stadium purely because the set of fans it is aimed at have chosen religion as their vehicle of hate, is very clearly, very obviously sectarian.

He is doing it to pander to fans for whom the gesture is synonymous with their chosen brand of bigotry.

Anyone arguing against this demeans any semblance of decency they claim to have on the subject. If you outright cannot condemn this sort of pathetic shite because Gazza is one of yours then you just cannot be taken seriously and become part of the problem.

Honestly can't believe the wriggling and qualifying you are doing to try and make it OK. Absolutely laughable
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5 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

The whataboutery also confuses me.

Paul Gascoigne is a bigot. It’s hard to argue against it, so a lot of people don’t they try to defect it

Bigoted humour, racist humour, it’s a fair game for gazza. 

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11 minutes ago, Bairnardo said:

The context of it, which is to bring a religious gesture into a football stadium purely because the set of fans it is aimed at have chosen religion as their vehicle of hate, is very clearly, very obviously sectarian.

He is doing it to pander to fans for whom the gesture is synonymous with their chosen brand of bigotry.

Anyone arguing against this demeans any semblance of decency they claim to have on the subject. If you outright cannot condemn this sort of pathetic shite because Gazza is one of yours then you just cannot be taken seriously and become part of the problem.

Honestly can't believe the wriggling and qualifying you are doing to try and make it OK. Absolutely laughable

I’ve not said it was ok, I said it was lazy and needless pandering. I just don’t believe the gesture alone is sufficient enough to be deemed bigoted or sectarian.

As I mentioned, it panders to those who are bigoted or sectarian, but again, not everyone that uses a flute to celebrate their faith will be bigoted.

Maybe I’m wrong, I just couldn’t see someone making a flute gesture being convicted of a crime motivated by hate.

Again though, I’m not saying it was okay and he shouldn’t have done it.

Edited by AJF
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24 minutes ago, AJF said:

Well, I would consider that a racist gesture considering the KKK are/were an openly racist white supremacist group. Everyone that joins the KKK is a racist. Not everyone that uses a flute to celebrate their faith is a bigot (obviously some will be).

Edit: I’m not saying Gascoigne isn’t a bigot, I’m saying a flute gesture shouldn’t be considered bigoted and it doesn’t show any intolerance to a different faith.

Are you taking the piss or is it just mental gymnastics?

Unbelievable but sadly predictable attitude 

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2 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Are you taking the piss or is it just mental gymnastics?

Unbelievable but sadly predictable attitude 

I’ve said what I think. I really don’t believe he, or anyone for that matter, will be getting a chap on the door from the police for any sectarian related charge for gesturing to play a flute.

Edited by AJF
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2 minutes ago, AJF said:

I just couldn’t see someone making a flute gesture being convicted of a crime motivated by hate.

Who said anything about a criminal act?

The guy plays a flute in pretence he’s a supporter of a anti catholic hate group.

It’s clearly bigoted, and I struggle to take your argument as a good faith one. 

Very much a “don’t believe what you’re seeing to be true” type argument 

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1 minute ago, AJF said:

I’ve said what I think. I really don’t believe he, or anyone for that matter, will be getting a chap on the door from the police for any sectarian related charge for gesturing to play a flute.

Again, what’s with the mention of criminal acts or the police being involved?

Reeks of defection and whataboutery with the fact the guy is a bigot.

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6 minutes ago, Clown Job said:

Who said anything about a criminal act?

The guy plays a flute in pretence he’s a supporter of a anti catholic hate group.

It’s clearly bigoted, and I struggle to take your argument as a good faith one. 

Very much a “don’t believe what you’re seeing to be true” type argument 

That’s the thing though, the OO itself is not an anti catholic hate group (no laughing at the back please).

I had it explained to me in my younger years from someone in it that said while they are obviously pro-Protestant faith, there is no official stance on being anti-Catholic and they believe there should be tolerance of differing religions whilst disagreeing with them. The overriding purpose was to promote a belief in their god and Protestant ascendancy. They obviously acknowledge a large portion of members sadly will hold sectarian beliefs, but again, not all of them do which is why I don’t think the gesture alone would be considered sectarian.

I mentioned a criminal act because if it was deemed a sectarian gesture then whoever done it would be guilty of abusive sectarian behaviour which I believe is a criminal offence in Scotland?

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3 minutes ago, AJF said:

That’s the thing though, the OO itself is not an anti catholic hate group

This conversation is done. 

As I said, you’re not arguing in good faith 

Paul Gascoigne is a bigot. It’s as simple as that 

Edited by Clown Job
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This conversation is done. 
As I said, you’re not arguing in good faith 
Paul Gascoigne is a bigot. It’s as simple as that 
There is no arguing in good faith here. There is only ridiculous whataboutery or pretending not to see the problem, or there is total condemnation and an acknowledgement that those arguing semantics to justify this shite are a huge part of the problem.
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59 minutes ago, AJF said:

Well, I would consider that a racist gesture considering the KKK are/were an openly racist white supremacist group. Everyone that joins the KKK is a racist. Not everyone that uses a flute to celebrate their faith is a bigot (obviously some will be).

Edit: I’m not saying Gascoigne isn’t a bigot, I’m saying a flute gesture shouldn’t be considered bigoted and it doesn’t show any intolerance to a different faith.

A James Galway fan perhaps? 

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Just now, Bairnardo said:
4 minutes ago, Clown Job said:
This conversation is done. 
As I said, you’re not arguing in good faith 
Paul Gascoigne is a bigot. It’s as simple as that 

There is no arguing in good faith here. There is only ridiculous whataboutery or pretending not to see the problem, or there is total condemnation and an acknowledgement that those arguing semantics to justify this shite are a huge part of the problem.

Nobody is justifying it. Was it crass, ill-advised and fucking foolish? Absolutely.

I also am not refusing to acknowledge there is a problem in doing it, I just don’t see how it would fit under any definition of sectarian or bigoted.

That may be semantics, true.

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