AJF Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Clown Job said: You know this is a lie. Is it? As pointed out above, many of our former players and managers have been branded "Orange b*****ds" with no basis of them being a member of the Orange Order. Similarly, while a large percentage of Rangers fans may be Protestant, only a fraction of them will be a member of the Orange Order (using quick google maths, only approximately 0.9% of Scotland's population will be a member of the Orange Order) . So, it begs the question why they would all be branded "Orange b*****ds" if they are not representatively members of the Orange Order. Additionally, Nil By Mouth, Scotland's leading anti-sectarianism charity recognises terms such as "Orange b*****ds" as sectarian and specifically includes this as an example of sectarianism against Protestants or those perceived to be Protestants. In the same argument, the word F*nian has been determined as sectarian when used in an abusive manner against Catholics or those perceived to Catholics, would you agree? Now, the word F*nian refers to the F*nian and Irish Republican Brotherhood. Now, I think it would be safe to assume that when someone is branded a F*nian b*****d, it is not abusing their perceived membership of the F*nian or Irish Republican Brotherhood, it is abusing their perceived Catholic religion. It is the exact same for the term "Orange b*****ds". Edited August 31, 2021 by AJF 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 3 minutes ago, AJF said: Is it? Yes 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 4 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Yes Excellent fact based rebuttal. You've done me. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Just now, AJF said: Excellent fact based rebuttal. You've done me. Glad we agree Hopefully you’ll stop peddling the lie now. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gannonball Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 hour ago, AJF said: I think it's fairly clear that when the term Orange is used in these songs/insults it's referring to Protestants. I think the vast majority of protestants would beg to differ on this, f**k me 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 7 minutes ago, Clown Job said: Glad we agree Hopefully you’ll stop peddling the lie now. So does the term F*enian b*****d only insult perceived members of the F*nian and Irish Republican Brotherhood? Or does it also insult those perceived to be Catholics? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsimButtHitsASix Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, AJF said: So does the term F*enian b*****d only insult perceived members of the F*nian and Irish Republican Brotherhood? Or does it also insult those perceived to be Catholics? When Sevco fans sing it are they only attempting to insult perceived members of the ****** and Irish Republican Brotherhood? Or do they do it to insult those perceived to be Catholics? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, AsimButtHitsASix said: When Sevco fans sing it are they only attempting to insult perceived members of the ****** and Irish Republican Brotherhood? Or do they do it to insult those perceived to be Catholics? They are attempting to insult those they perceive to be Catholics, which is exactly my point. It is the exact same for the term "Orange b*****ds". Are we to genuinely believe that our players, managers and fans over the years have been branded "Orange b*****ds" because they are perceived to be a member of the Orange Order? No, they are perceived to be Protestant. Edited August 31, 2021 by AJF 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinky67 Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 56 minutes ago, Forever_blueco said: Lash out all you want your justifying of the term is utter nonsense 1 hour ago, Jinky67 said: That doesn’t make it right or justifiable either for people to sing these songs So when i say it’s not right or justifiable that’s me justifying it is it? So there is no lashing out here more a pointing out that whenever your fans are called out for anti-catholic or racist behaviour your default go to is “what about celtic” and completely avoid calling it out for what it is 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Brees Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, AJF said: So does the term F*enian b*****d only insult perceived members of the F*nian and Irish Republican Brotherhood? Or does it also insult those perceived to be Catholics? Don’t think it insults anyone, Celtic fans regularly use the term f****n to describe ourselves. Edited August 31, 2021 by Drew Brees 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 (edited) 10 minutes ago, AJF said: So does the term F*enian b*****d only insult perceived members of the F*nian and Irish Republican Brotherhood? Or does it also insult those perceived to be Catholics? I’m not getting involved in your whataboutery to justify the lie I will say, in my own experience people who push this lie and usually the type that are upset they can’t openly use anti catholic/ Irish slurs anymore So they manufactured this grievance based on a lie as a way to get back at they pesky Catholics Hoping people will equate the H word with the F word, when in reality it’s a totally false equivalence Edit: So when I see anyone pushing it, I can’t help but think that’s the motivation behind it Edited August 31, 2021 by Clown Job 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 6 minutes ago, Jinky67 said: So when i say it’s not right or justifiable that’s me justifying it is it? So there is no lashing out here more a pointing out that whenever your fans are called out for anti-catholic or racist behaviour your default go to is “what about celtic” and completely avoid calling it out for what it is Yeah the irony of your “no justification “ ending was that you just spent about 3 paragraphs before it justifying it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingjoey Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 After reading some of the utter sh*te being posted here, I am so thankful that I stay in the North East of Scotland and support neither Celtic nor Rangers. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Clown Job said: I’m not getting involved in your whataboutery to justify the lie I will say, in my own experience people who push this lie and usually the type that are upset they can’t openly use anti catholic/ Irish slurs anymore So they manufactured this grievance based on a lie as a way to get back at they pesky Catholics Hoping people will equate the H word with the F word, when in reality it’s a totally false equivalence Edit: So when I see anyone pushing it, I can’t help but think that’s the motivation behind it Explain “KAH” graffiti in republican areas of Northern Ireland and fell me how it isn’t comparable to anything on the other side 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Just now, Forever_blueco said: Explain “KAH” graffiti in republican areas of Northern Ireland and fell me how it isn’t comparable to anything on the other side I don’t live in Northern Ireland, never stepped foot in the place. No idea why you’d expect me to answer a question about another country, although from what I’ve read NI treatment of Catholics isn’t something to look fondly upon Cheers for helping me solidify my opinion though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJF Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 5 minutes ago, Clown Job said: I’m not getting involved in your whataboutery to justify the lie I will say, in my own experience people who push this lie and usually the type that are upset they can’t openly use anti catholic/ Irish slurs anymore So they manufactured this grievance based on a lie as a way to get back at they pesky Catholics Hoping people will equate the H word with the F word, when in reality it’s a totally false equivalence Edit: So when I see anyone pushing it, I can’t help but think that’s the motivation behind it I've not got involved in whataboutery at all. The discussion had already begun on the use of the term by Celtic fans, I just added my opinion to it. You don't want to get involved with the points I've raised because there are clear similarities between Rangers fans using the term "F*nian b*****ds" and Celtic fans using the term "Orange b*****ds". You may not agree that the term applies to Protestants, but I've provided you with my reasoning and sources as to why I disagree with you. In addition to whether you believe it applies to all Protestants or just the Orange Order, then it would still be a sectarian insult in either use. And you can think what you want about the motivations of discussing it, but you're mistaken. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forever_blueco Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Just now, Clown Job said: I don’t live in Northern Ireland, never stepped foot in the place. No idea why you’d expect me to answer a question about another country, although from what I’ve read NI treatment of Catholics isn’t something to look fondly upon Cheers for helping me solidify my opinion though. I mean it pops up on walls here too mostly by groups who are supportive of militant Irish republicanism so you can see why it’s not hard to link it all up 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 Just now, Forever_blueco said: I mean it pops up on walls here too mostly by groups who are supportive of militant Irish republicanism so you can see why it’s not hard to link it all up I’m sorry it’s not acceptable to use anti catholic or Irish slurs anymore. You'll learn to live with it I hope 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drew Brees Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 1 minute ago, AJF said: In addition to whether you believe it applies to all Protestants or just the Orange Order, then it would still be a sectarian insult in either use. Again can I ask then, can you be sectarian against an openly sectarian organisation?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clown Job Posted August 31, 2021 Share Posted August 31, 2021 2 minutes ago, AJF said: I've not got involved in whataboutery at all. Enjoy the rest of your day I will also apologise to you for it no longer being acceptable to use anti catholic or Irish slurs Hopefully you can move on and accept it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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