Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Super_J said:

13 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Disappointed for Scougall, but if he's not getting anywhere near the team, then it's right for him and the club that he moves on.  It looks like we're being pro-active here, which is good, as it's still a couple of weeks til the transfer window opens, so hopefully we are as on the ball with who we bring in.
If we do as well as we did in the summer then exciting times ahead. 
I think a pacey wide player, and possibly a left sided defender/ midfielder will be high on the wish list.  I agree with others that a different style of central midfielder would be good, but with Davidson, Craig, Callachan, Alston and Wotherspoon who all can play there, I don't think it will be a priority for the manager.

Agree with much of this post but Wotherspoon is not a viable option in the middle for me. Not for a minute.

Agree personally, but I was talking about from the manager's point of view, he's used him there quite a few times.

[PauloPerth]

Read a couple people say Dundee are interested in Scougall, not sure how true it is.

If that is the case, I wouldn't mind a wee swap deal where Kamara comes to Saints. 

Think Kamara's contract is also up at the end of the season (?), so shouldn't be any payment required either way..

Edited December 21, 2018 by PauloPerth

[Radford]

The curious case of Stefan Scougall. Huge hype when he arrived but was it misplaced? There's no doubt he'd done well up here with Livingston but had never started more than half of Sheffield United's games during any League One season. He's started 41 league games in the last 4 years. 

He showed pretty quickly that he has good technical ability but definitely got more grace than almost any player I can remember. There is no doubt that the support wanted him to do well. But what did he produce in terms of tangible contribution? Compare and contrast to Kennedy and Swanson, for example. Even this season, fans were looking to make excuses for him, talking about unfounded fallouts with the manager; rather than just facing the stark truth that TW preferred his other 5 or 6 attacking midfielders. You can't play them all. 

Size isn't a barrier (see the two named above) but when it's combined with a lack of strength, pace and inability to beat a man, it makes it hard, especially in the sometimes frenetic nature of Scottish football. 

The player will maybe point to the fact he was never really given a chance as a number ten but Tommy Wright is no fool, he must have had his reasons for never deploying what was an expensive signing in that role, even preferring the likes of David McMillan there and obviously George Williams last season.

Maybe Scougall will prove Tommy Wright wrong but I can't think of many that do. More likely is that the legend of Stefan Scougall will continue to precede him and he'll earn a few more moves before reality dawns; he's just not that good. 

[capt_oats]

I've mentioned before that we were reported to be interested in bringing Scougall to Fir Park prior to him signing up with you guys. It was as part of Robinson's massive squad rebuild and in the end we signed Craig Tanner for that role. Tanner's been out injured since February and it's unlikely we'll see him again this season so we're short of a diminutive, creative, attacking midfielder to play off the strikers.

Motherwell's market is very much players who are out of favour at other clubs and it'd be a very Motherwell move to go for a player we tried to sign 2 years ago. We were in for Ciftci at least 3 windows in a row before we actually signed him.

Robinson's been clear that we're looking to add in the attacking third but he's mostly been specific about needing width and tbh David Turnbull's doing a pretty decent job in the attacking midfield role. He's got more goals in his 11 appearances for Motherwell this season than Scougall's managed in his career with you guys (acknowledging he hasn't actually played much and when he has he's been out of position).

Also I get the impression that Robinson and Wright are kindred spirits of sorts in terms of expectations of players so who knows maybe we're looking at Scougall's experience in Perth and thinking we dodged a bullet. While Tanner and Scougall are similar in terms of type nevertheless Tanner has a bit of bulk and strength about him along with some end product (9 goals and 8 assists in 36 games) which going by @Radford's post above Scougall's lacking.

It wouldn't be a huge shock to me if we were interested but it depends whether Scougall would be up for moving to a club where he may be viewed as a squad player again presumably on less money as I don't see us being in a hurry to chuck cash at a player with only 9 mins of league football to his name this season.

Edited December 21, 2018 by capt_oats

[RandomGuy.]

54 minutes ago, Radford said:

More likely is that the legend of Stefan Scougall will continue to precede him and he'll earn a few more moves before reality dawns; he's just not that good. 

I think this is harsh.

Really, it looks like Scougall needs a team built around his weaknesses, and he's never come close to doing enough with us to justify that. Kennedy's impact, in multiple positions, probably makes Scougall look even worse.

I imagine looking back there's probably a couple of "sliding doors" moments when he was given game time while we were playing poorly, but just couldn't provide the spark he was signed to give. Just how it goes sometimes.

Imagine the teams around the bottom four, and some higher end Championship sides, will be after him, I can't see them matching wage though. A loan deal where they cover part, and them he tries to play his way into a better deal for next season somewhere, seems then most likely route.

If he does well elsewhere then he does well elsewhere, it's a bit annoying he hasn't played much this season, but it's hard to argue with Tommy Wrights judgements.

[RandomGuy.]

13 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

 

I think he'd get lost under Robinson, tbh. He's one of the weakest players I've seen, and isn't quick or particularly skilful either. If Bigiramana gets constantly shunned for not being physical enough, Scougall would be even worse. He's not a wide player.

[Valentino Bolognese]

11 hours ago, Lang Toon Saintee said:

With Easton on course for a return after the winter break we will have cover and I don't know what you have been seeing but Tanser is now a very good fullback as well as a wingback 

Maybe I wasn't clear .. Tanser has had a fantasitc season, he's turning into a tremendous asset, doesn't hide and isn't lazy  is a lot more robust than last year, can beat men and has good distribution / delivery.  If anything I'd like to see more of him on free kicks.  I'm just saying I'd like a bit more cover there, not that we need a upgrade. 

[capt_oats]

38 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

I think he'd get lost under Robinson, tbh. He's one of the weakest players I've seen, and isn't quick or particularly skilful either. If Bigiramana gets constantly shunned for not being physical enough, Scougall would be even worse. He's not a wide player.

Yeah, for all I'm comparing them it's probably worth clarifying that it took Robinson ages to find a position for Tanner. The first half of last season he was hooked at half time a couple of time and often subbed inside an hour. He ended up most effective as the #10 in a 3412 playing off Main and Ciftci. We don't really have someone for that role at the moment as both Turnbull and Bigi are more traditional centre mids.

The reason Bigirimana is frequently dug out this season is because he operates in an area of the park where him frequently switching off and losing his runner often costs us rather than it necessarily being a physicality thing. The complaint about his physicality and intensity was very much last season, now it's just him not tracking the guy he's supposed to be marking on a weekly basis.

As I say though I don't think Scougall and Bigi is the comparison. Of the current starting line up it's Turnbull who's in that role and while he's an absolute #baller it's a big ask to be relying on a 19 year old to be your sole creative midfielder but that said anyone coming in will have a job getting the jersey off him at the moment.

Edit to add: having said all that I actually agree that he'd probably just end up getting lost under Robinson.

Edited December 21, 2018 by capt_oats

[Lang Toon Saintee]

3 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Maybe I wasn't clear .. Tanser has had a fantasitc season, he's turning into a tremendous asset, doesn't hide and isn't lazy  is a lot more robust than last year, can beat men and has good distribution / delivery.  If anything I'd like to see more of him on free kicks.  I'm just saying I'd like a bit more cover there, not that we need a upgrade. 

As I was saying the latest on Easton is that he is now making good progress with the club looking for him to return to action after the break.Obviously this is not a 100% guarantee, but in light of this I  can't  see us signing a third left back.I think we are more likely to sign an attacking right sided player on loan.

[The Marly]

I think this is harsh.
Really, it looks like Scougall needs a team built around his weaknesses, and he's never come close to doing enough with us to justify that. Kennedy's impact, in multiple positions, probably makes Scougall look even worse.
I imagine looking back there's probably a couple of "sliding doors" moments when he was given game time while we were playing poorly, but just couldn't provide the spark he was signed to give. Just how it goes sometimes.
Imagine the teams around the bottom four, and some higher end Championship sides, will be after him, I can't see them matching wage though. A loan deal where they cover part, and them he tries to play his way into a better deal for next season somewhere, seems then most likely route.
If he does well elsewhere then he does well elsewhere, it's a bit annoying he hasn't played much this season, but it's hard to argue with Tommy Wrights judgements.

It's not harsh in any way. Scougall has been as ineffectual a player as I can remember at Saints in a long time and@Radford has hit the nail squarely on the head with his post, especially in terms of Scougall getting an easy ride from the fans compared to numerous other players who have contributed so much more for Saints. Overhyped, overpaid and overstayed his welcome in my book.

[RandomGuy.]

 

 

[Center half]

9 hours ago, Radford said:

The curious case of Stefan Scougall. Huge hype when he arrived but was it misplaced? There's no doubt he'd done well up here with Livingston but had never started more than half of Sheffield United's games during any League One season. He's started 41 league games in the last 4 years. 

He showed pretty quickly that he has good technical ability but definitely got more grace than almost any player I can remember. There is no doubt that the support wanted him to do well. But what did he produce in terms of tangible contribution? Compare and contrast to Kennedy and Swanson, for example. Even this season, fans were looking to make excuses for him, talking about unfounded fallouts with the manager; rather than just facing the stark truth that TW preferred his other 5 or 6 attacking midfielders. You can't play them all. 

Size isn't a barrier (see the two named above) but when it's combined with a lack of strength, pace and inability to beat a man, it makes it hard, especially in the sometimes frenetic nature of Scottish football. 

The player will maybe point to the fact he was never really given a chance as a number ten but Tommy Wright is no fool, he must have had his reasons for never deploying what was an expensive signing in that role, even preferring the likes of David McMillan there and obviously George Williams last season.

Maybe Scougall will prove Tommy Wright wrong but I can't think of many that do. More likely is that the legend of Stefan Scougall will continue to precede him and he'll earn a few more moves before reality dawns; he's just not that good. 

This is much what Sheffield United fans I know said to me , He is much the same size (Height wise) as John Fleck but Fleck is much stronger and made a bigger impact than Scougall  ever done.

[RandomGuy.]

St Johnstone manager Tommy Wright expects to spend most of the January transfer window trying to tie down the likes of Joe Shaughnessy, Blair Alston, David Wotherspoon and Richard Foster on new contracts. (Mail On Sunday, print edition)

[PauloPerth]

Amazing how quickly things turn round. We've gone from an 8 game unbeaten run with 6 wins and 2 draws, to now being on a run of 1 win in 5 matches.  Quite harsh considering we've only really played badly in the first 20 minutes against Motherwell.

Got to be looking to bounce back and get wins in Paisley and Dundee. We're certainly a far better team than both, just got to get the right mindset and make sure we defend crosses much better.

[mizfit]

Not fussed about today, always write off games against the old firm.

Usual behaviour from the morons though. Pissing in the streets, sectarian chanting and an classless manager.

I miss only having to deal with one half of the old firm.

[RandomGuy.]

54 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Amazing how quickly things turn round. We've gone from an 8 game unbeaten run with 6 wins and 2 draws, to now being on a run of 1 win in 5 matches.  Quite harsh considering we've only really played badly in the first 20 minutes against Motherwell.

Got to be looking to bounce back and get wins in Paisley and Dundee. We're certainly a far better team than both, just got to get the right mindset and make sure we defend crosses much better.

I think its "natural" that we'd lose a lot of games after that run.

Biggest thing for me is that we're looking dangerous even when we are losing. 2-1 loss to Rangers/Motherwell last season would've likely seen us struggling to muster a serious effort at goal, this season it feels like theres always a chance.

Think top four is now gone, but Hearts/Hibs/Livingston all still fightable for the top six.

Edited December 23, 2018 by RandomGuy.

[Radford]

Other than the 6-0 defeat to Celtic, I've not really been disappointed with a home performance all season. It's not inconceivable that we'll finish 8th this season but if we keep playing as we are doing, I'm not sure there will be too much cause for complaint.

On the contract thing, has TW namechecked those players or has the author just looked at who is out of contract and picked four names? I would expect he wants to keep all four but wouldn't necessarily read too much into guys that aren't mentioned. After last summer, I think this one is more likely to be back to normal with continuity the key.

[Snifter Pee Rot]

Were worth a point today until the Sevco get out of jail card.

[perthsaint1977]

Drey Wright effect to be factored in to the last few games .

[PauloPerth]

Two away games to finish the year might not be too bad a thing considering we are top of the away form only league, that coveted title.