Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Kyle]

[The Saintee]

I was really pleased with the appointment of CD but I'm starting to get the feeling that he doesn't know what he's doing.....

[derek_holmes]

Is it that:

• CD is trying to redress the balance because he felt he (inadvertently) threw Melamed under the bus in the original interview?
• CD is hoping to generate a bit of interest in Melamed from other clubs?
• Melamed has genuinely upped his game over the past couple of weeks?
• We're so crap that playing Melamed is now the only option?

Regardless, he's going to tear United a new one this weekend.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

What have we got to lose by giving him a run of 3-4 games? Not much, we're not winning, others have had their chance, things haven't particularly changed so continuing with the same players and just "hoping" things will change seem unlikely. 

[mizfit]

Clubs around us are starting to make signings.

Need to pull out finger out.

[perthsaint1977]

Clubs around us are starting to make signings.

Need to pull out finger out.

We will see two cheap young loans in on deadline day as we all know.

[Widge]

January window is always a tricky one, especially at the moment. Every man and their dog can see we're missing something creative and something to finish. For me we need at least 2 in the door who address that. Ok, McNamara has gone, but we've got a replacement for him and actually in a weird way I'm looking forward to seeing what Rooney can do. He's a bit of a battering ram and whilst a bit mindless, does cause issues when he gets going with pace.

If Melamed isn't up to it or isn't going to get a chance, sack him off and get someone else in pronto. If he is going to get a chance, bring someone else in anyway!

Defensively we're fine, albeit they need to get back to doing what we did best, clear the ball the moment it gets within 20 yards of our box. Goalkeeper, we can sit and debate all day, but zero chance our options there change until the summer. It all depends on the formation we play though, I'm not against a 3 back formation, they work; however it needs to be a 5-3-2 going forward, which means we need a creative midfielder to get on the ball and a striker to stay in the box and score goals.

So essentially we want Mehdi Abeid and Fran Sandaza..................easily found!

[PauloPerth]

1 hour ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

What have we got to lose by giving him a run of 3-4 games? Not much, we're not winning, others have had their chance, things haven't particularly changed so continuing with the same players and just "hoping" things will change seem unlikely. 

This is the thing, it's hard to break into a team that's flying and doing well.  But for a new striker not to be able to break into a team that's scored 1 goal every 3 games at home, something's not right.

When I read Davidson's interview at first I thought great, Melamed will be starting tomorrow and we're going two strikers v Utd, but thinking about it the obvious explanation is probably one of the first two on Derek's list below.

1 hour ago, derek_holmes said:

Is it that:

• CD is trying to redress the balance because he felt he (inadvertently) threw Melamed under the bus in the original interview?
• CD is hoping to generate a bit of interest in Melamed from other clubs?
• Melamed has genuinely upped his game over the past couple of weeks?
• We're so crap that playing Melamed is now the only option?

Regardless, he's going to tear United a new one this weekend.

But I still hold a glimmer of hope that he's just taken a while to settle and is ready for a hat trick.

I can't think of a more appropriate game for an Israeli to wreak havoc than against the Arabs...

 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

38 minutes ago, Widge said:

January window is always a tricky one, especially at the moment. Every man and their dog can see we're missing something creative and something to finish. For me we need at least 2 in the door who address that. Ok, McNamara has gone, but we've got a replacement for him and actually in a weird way I'm looking forward to seeing what Rooney can do. He's a bit of a battering ram and whilst a bit mindless, does cause issues when he gets going with pace.

If Melamed isn't up to it or isn't going to get a chance, sack him off and get someone else in pronto. If he is going to get a chance, bring someone else in anyway!

Defensively we're fine, albeit they need to get back to doing what we did best, clear the ball the moment it gets within 20 yards of our box. Goalkeeper, we can sit and debate all day, but zero chance our options there change until the summer. It all depends on the formation we play though, I'm not against a 3 back formation, they work; however it needs to be a 5-3-2 going forward, which means we need a creative midfielder to get on the ball and a striker to stay in the box and score goals.

So essentially we want Mehdi Abeid and Fran Sandaza..................easily found!

If you played 5-3-2 would McCann and Wotherspoon not do for the more creative midfielder? 

[PauloPerth]

Just now, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

If you played 5-3-2 would McCann and Wotherspoon not do for the more creative midfielder? 

That's how I'd set up tomorrow if we're sticking with the 3/5 at the back.

Liam Craig sitting with Spoony and McCann pushing on supporting May +1.

[Widge]

1 minute ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

If you played 5-3-2 would McCann and Wotherspoon not do for the more creative midfielder? 

McCann isn't creative, he's a ball winner/box to box player, but he's not going to beat a man and commit defences.

Wotherspoon isn't consistent enough with his passing, he's creative alright, but only if he's on form. I'm more than happy enough to have him play that role, but he needs competition and help, when he's relied on and the only option that's when there's issues.

As Paulo says above, a midfield of McCann - Craig - Wotherspoon is definitely our best right now in terms of keeping the ball and winning it back, the issue is none of them have any real pass or attacking instincts on the break. McCann is coming onto his game more and was excellent against Hamilton winning the ball high up the pitch in their half and releasing it, issue arises when neither of the other 2 midfielders or fullbacks can break forward without the ball quick enough to help, meaning we're left with a striker needing to shift into the channels and totally nullifying the box presence as it's easy for defenders to mark a single striker. 

Ideally we need a midfielder with a bit of pace and trickery to beat a man, whilst also being able to dig in and do the dirty work. The irony is, Drey Wright would probably have excelled in that sort of role for me, except for the end product which is what we really need. 

[Genuine Hibs Fan]

37 minutes ago, Widge said:

McCann isn't creative, he's a ball winner/box to box player, but he's not going to beat a man and commit defences.

Wotherspoon isn't consistent enough with his passing, he's creative alright, but only if he's on form. I'm more than happy enough to have him play that role, but he needs competition and help, when he's relied on and the only option that's when there's issues.

As Paulo says above, a midfield of McCann - Craig - Wotherspoon is definitely our best right now in terms of keeping the ball and winning it back, the issue is none of them have any real pass or attacking instincts on the break. McCann is coming onto his game more and was excellent against Hamilton winning the ball high up the pitch in their half and releasing it, issue arises when neither of the other 2 midfielders or fullbacks can break forward without the ball quick enough to help, meaning we're left with a striker needing to shift into the channels and totally nullifying the box presence as it's easy for defenders to mark a single striker. 

Ideally we need a midfielder with a bit of pace and trickery to beat a man, whilst also being able to dig in and do the dirty work. The irony is, Drey Wright would probably have excelled in that sort of role for me, except for the end product which is what we really need. 

I get you, all decent passers but none who have that positioning/trickey/pace to break on the counter. Not an easy player to come by. 

Tbh with McNamara away is it worth moving away from a back 3/5? Even with 3 in midfield it's a lot of responsibility to put on Tanser (who seems to have regressed a bit although I've not seen a lot of you tbf) and Rooney to get balls into the box and get forward to stop the opposition just clogging up the centre of the pitch

Eta I'm a fan of a 3-5-2 but the more I think of it you need a specific group of players for it. The most obvious example for a Hibbee is us the second half of 17/18. The best 11 that season was pretty much perfect for the system. When we've tried it since it hasn't worked nearly as well with different personnel

Edited January 8, 2021 by Genuine Hibs Fan

[PauloPerth]

14 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

 is it worth moving away from a back 3/5? 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

8 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I get you, all decent passers but none who have that positioning/trickey/pace to break on the counter. Not an easy player to come by. 

Tbh with McNamara away is it worth moving away from a back 3/5? Even with 3 in midfield it's a lot of responsibility to put on Tanser (who seems to have regressed a bit although I've not seen a lot of you tbf) and Rooney to get balls into the box and get forward to stop the opposition just clogging up the centre of the pitch

Eta I'm a fan of a 3-5-2 but the more I think of it you need a specific group of players for it. The most obvious example for a Hibbee is us the second half of 17/18. The best 11 that season was pretty much perfect for the system. When we've tried it since it hasn't worked nearly as well with different personnel

For what it's worth it was worth the opinion of most was Davidson should have binned his 5-2-3 weeks ago

I don't dislike it as a concept, although I probably don't hate any formation. Teams should use whatever suits the players they have! To many players playing in in roles that they lack the strengths to play. Probably what you're seeing now sometimes for Hibs when they play that way?

As some examples Rooney has done reasonably well in recent weeks but is not a central defender. MOH has struggled nearly 100% of the time he's played in the front 3 as it's a weird attacking midfielder inbehind the striker type role (he's to stupid to play there to be blunt). He played wing back which worked on brief occasion's this season but long term he'd be a worry having to do any sort of defending. This week we could end up with the likes of Conway or Spoony at wing back simply so we can stick to this shape. Just seems mad. Might not end up being the case though but we'll see. 

 

 

[The Marly]

I get you, all decent passers but none who have that positioning/trickey/pace to break on the counter. Not an easy player to come by. 
Tbh with McNamara away is it worth moving away from a back 3/5? Even with 3 in midfield it's a lot of responsibility to put on Tanser (who seems to have regressed a bit although I've not seen a lot of you tbf) and Rooney to get balls into the box and get forward to stop the opposition just clogging up the centre of the pitch
Eta I'm a fan of a 3-5-2 but the more I think of it you need a specific group of players for it. The most obvious example for a Hibbee is us the second half of 17/18. The best 11 that season was pretty much perfect for the system. When we've tried it since it hasn't worked nearly as well with different personnel

Tanser has been in good form for most of the season. He's also our best wing back in terms of delivery in to the box, so that responsibility wouldn't faze him.

[RandomGuy.]

We need to get back to sitting deep and countering IMO, as few touches between winning the ball back and putting balls into the box as possible.

This allowing teams to camp in the box and slowly build up to crosses is killing us.

Last season we had less passes, less crosses, and if I'll check it tonight, I'd bet less possession in the opponents 3rd too, yet we had more shots in the box, more completed passes into the box, and higher xG per shot than this season. 

To me that suggests what style we should be playing, especially since we've struggled all season for wins/goals.

[PauloPerth]

14 minutes ago, The Marly said:

36 minutes ago, Genuine Hibs Fan said:

I get you, all decent passers but none who have that positioning/trickey/pace to break on the counter. Not an easy player to come by. 
Tbh with McNamara away is it worth moving away from a back 3/5? Even with 3 in midfield it's a lot of responsibility to put on Tanser (who seems to have regressed a bit although I've not seen a lot of you tbf) and Rooney to get balls into the box and get forward to stop the opposition just clogging up the centre of the pitch
Eta I'm a fan of a 3-5-2 but the more I think of it you need a specific group of players for it. The most obvious example for a Hibbee is us the second half of 17/18. The best 11 that season was pretty much perfect for the system. When we've tried it since it hasn't worked nearly as well with different personnel

Tanser has been in good form for most of the season. He's also our best wing back in terms of delivery in to the box, so that responsibility wouldn't faze him.

Don't you think he's capable of much more?  Other than that really good goal in Paisley, can't think of many key contributions by a supposed attack minded wing back.  Does he have any assists?

Hes been mostly solid and dependable, but I think Tanser is sometimes comfortable just getting through games without fucking up, whereas you look at Danny Mac who often tried to grab the game by the scruff of the neck to have an impact.

Maybe harsh on Tanser, as he's been fairly steady and has improved massively since he joined us; I suppose it's a back handed compliment that I think he's got the ability to be a really key contributor in the system we've mostly been playing. 

 

[RandomGuy.]

8 minutes ago, PauloPerth said:

Does he have any assists?

Only Conway and Wotherspoon have a higher xA this season, which seems fairer to judge than assists, seeing as Tanser could plonk the ball in front of an open goal with a 60yd pass and Kane would still sclaff it wide.

Used this a few days ago to try and gauge who's being effective in attack, if it's of any interest...

[derek_holmes]

Here's an eve-of-matchday exercise for anyone who's interested:

Which 11 St Johnstone players from, say, the last 20 years or so would best fit the 3-4-3 formation (plus goalkeeper)?

[Widge]

8 minutes ago, derek_holmes said:

Here's an eve-of-matchday exercise for anyone who's interested:

Which 11 St Johnstone players from, say, the last 20 years or so would best fit the 3-4-3 formation (plus goalkeeper)?

------------------- Enkleman

----------Mackay - Duberry - Kerr

McNamara-------------------------Stanic

----------------McCann--Morris

 Wotherspoon---Sandaza---Swanson

Only one I'd maybe change is Sandaza for Maclean, then again he'd end up out the box and on the wing the entire time!! Dunno if Morris would be mobile enough, but could use Chris Millar instead and that would still work. Also highlights how blessed we were with Dave Mackay in that I'd have him play in the back 3 with his ability, but also I'd probably have him at right back if I could. Shows we've never replaced him, if McNamara is the best right back I can remember!!