Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[Radford]

Full in the knowledge that folk will tell me I'm being harsh, I don't like Clark's positioning at all for the winner on Saturday. He's not close enough to Robinson to make himself a significant obstacle and if he's closer to his line probably forces the goalscorer to take a touch, which gives both him and the defence an opportunity to block.

[The Saintee]

4 minutes ago, Radford said:

Full in the knowledge that folk will tell me I'm being harsh, I don't like Clark's positioning at all for the winner on Saturday. He's not close enough to Robinson to make himself a significant obstacle and if he's closer to his line probably forces the goalscorer to take a touch, which gives both him and the defence an opportunity to block.

Every question and doubt in regards to Clark is entirely down to how he's been performing in general. Totally justified to scrutinize him.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Regardless of opinion on big Zander the Scotland call up chat is frankly mental. You'd maybe believe some of it if he'd actually shown some real form, kept us in games etc but that simply hasn't been there. He saves the "easy" ones and nothing more. 

He did well at against Celtic but one performance isn't enough and the majority of saves included in that montage Saints posted were ones that Stevie Wonder would have had a chance of saving. 

 

[tree house tam]

29 minutes ago, Radford said:

Full in the knowledge that folk will tell me I'm being harsh, I don't like Clark's positioning at all for the winner on Saturday. He's not close enough to Robinson to make himself a significant obstacle and if he's closer to his line probably forces the goalscorer to take a touch, which gives both him and the defence an opportunity to block.

There were several players that need blamed before we should even consider Clark. Folk saying we have a decent defence are kidding themselves on. We have okay defenders who should know the system by now but we are being undone by simple balls through and players being out of position. It's not good enough.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

11 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

There were several players that need blamed before we should even consider Clark. Folk saying we have a decent defence are kidding themselves on. We have okay defenders who should know the system by now but we are being undone by simple balls through and players being out of position. It's not good enough.

For me there's to much focus on the central defender overlapping etc and less on just doing the basics of defending. While fans seem to like it, particularly i think simply because it involves Kerr in terms of results, i don't think it makes a blind bit of difference to our attacking play. I think it actually hinders it as it just overcrowds that right channel. 

The goals were losing as well are just constantly poor. Defend reasonably for the most part but then just prone to giving away a shite goal. 

Motherwell goal in the cup tie, the two Hibs goals, the two Livi goals on Saturday, the first Livi goal away from home earlier in the year, Kilmarnock goal away from home as examples from memory are all goals that were utterly pathetic for one reason or another. It really needs to be better. 

A mixture of giving away very poor goals, not scoring many and consistently not winning games that you're the better team in is not a good mix.

Edited December 14, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[derek_holmes]

48 minutes ago, Radford said:

Full in the knowledge that folk will tell me I'm being harsh, I don't like Clark's positioning at all for the winner on Saturday. He's not close enough to Robinson to make himself a significant obstacle and if he's closer to his line probably forces the goalscorer to take a touch, which gives both him and the defence an opportunity to block.

It's a strange-looking goal on the highlights. Agreed that if Clark stays closer to his line then Robinson can't simply pass it into the bottom corner (ish). Clark looks like he was expecting it to be thumped at him (and doesn't have much time to react). 

[tree house tam]

17 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

For me there's to much focus on the central defender overlapping etc and less on just doing the basics of defending. While fans seem to like it, particularly i think simply because it involves Kerr in terms of results, i don't think it makes a blind bit of difference to our attacking play. I think it actually hinders it as it just overcrowds that right channel. 

The goals were losing as well are just constantly poor. Defend reasonably for the most part but then just prone to giving away a shite goal. 

Motherwell goal in the cup tie, the two Hibs goals, the two Livi goals on Saturday, the first Livi goal away from home earlier in the year, Kilmarnock goal away from home as examples from memory are all goals that were utterly pathetic for one reason or another. It really needs to be better. 

A mixture of giving away very poor goals, not scoring many and consistently not winning games that you're the better team in is not a good mix.

It might not be any better in a 4, there might be less space for the opposition to play through us but if the players get dragged out or if they simply keep making individual errors then it doesn't matter which set up we have. They need to stand up and be counted and concentrate for the 95 minutes most weeks or we will get dragged into the battle to stay up. Being decent and having plenty possession between both 18 yard lines means f**k all in the grand scheme of things.

[The Marly]

Full in the knowledge that folk will tell me I'm being harsh, I don't like Clark's positioning at all for the winner on Saturday. He's not close enough to Robinson to make himself a significant obstacle and if he's closer to his line probably forces the goalscorer to take a touch, which gives both him and the defence an opportunity to block.

It's a fair shout, but the problem starts with Stevie losing the ball in our half and then one ball over the top does our whole defence. The goal is preventable long before this stage.

[The Saintee]

53 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

There were several players that need blamed before we should even consider Clark. Folk saying we have a decent defence are kidding themselves on. We have okay defenders who should know the system by now but we are being undone by simple balls through and players being out of position. It's not good enough.

Big Liam is the worst IMO.

[tree house tam]

52 minutes ago, The Saintee said:

Big Liam is the worst IMO.

He is a problem but not the only culprit.

[Kyle]

Glad to see people are seeing what I've been seeing all season. Felt like I was watching a different team to what everyone else was in the home matches at times.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

1 hour ago, tree house tam said:

It might not be any better in a 4, there might be less space for the opposition to play through us but if the players get dragged out or if they simply keep making individual errors then it doesn't matter which set up we have. They need to stand up and be counted and concentrate for the 95 minutes most weeks or we will get dragged into the battle to stay up. Being decent and having plenty possession between both 18 yard lines means f**k all in the grand scheme of things.

Agreed 100% - it's less about the formation & shape and more about concentration, decision making, conviction of final ball as well as in front of goal as well as I think simplifying things a little going forward.

I never believed the goals would just come and at the moment do see us heavily involved at the bottom as exactly as you say, our "strength" of doing alright between both 18 yard boxes is producing very little in terms of results. 

TW's football maybe wasn't sexy but tbh I'd rather watch that, particularly at home. Mostly on the front foot and less of this creating absolutely nothing "but we dominated possession" - sigh.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

4 minutes ago, Kyle said:

Glad to see people are seeing what I've been seeing all season. Felt like I was watching a different team to what everyone else was in the home matches at times.

I was attacked by some Saints fans in a match thread for saying as much a few weeks ago after the international break (after another game we should have won and didn't) after far to many attacking players produced another meek output. 

 It was basically how dare you critise them. Look at the goals they scored in the League Cup and at Hamilton

[Kyle]

2 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Agreed 100% - it's less about the formation & shape and more about concentration, decision making, conviction of final ball as well as in front of goal as well as I think simplifying things a little going forward.

I never believed the goals would just come and at the moment do see us heavily involved at the bottom as exactly as you say, our "strength" of doing alright between both 18 yard boxes is producing very little in terms of results. 

TW's football maybe wasn't sexy but tbh I'd rather watch that, particularly at home. Mostly on the front foot and less of this creating absolutely nothing "but we dominated possession" - sigh.

100% this. Tommy Wright's football wasn't as attractive but it was more effective. I highly doubt we'd have lost so many late, important goals with Tommy Wright in charge. Aberdeen,  Hibs x 2 and Celtic x 2 spring immediately to mind. I also doubt we'd have 5 strikers and only 3 players who look comfortable in wide positions either.

I like watching the team in away matches and I'm excited about tomorrow's game but I've been tempted to just not bother watching the home matches a few times already.

[RandomGuy.]

This is Davidsons biggest issue. Tommy Wright being put on a pedestal, all his flaws forgotten about, and them being compared.

We didn't concede late goals that cost us games under TW because we'd already fallen behind in the first 20 minutes...

[RandomGuy.]

For reference. Home form is...

Played: 9 - Won: 2 - Drawn: 2 - Lost: 5 - Scored: 4 - Conceded: 8

First 9 home games last season - Won: 2 - Drawn: 3 - Lost: 4 - Scored: 9 - Conceded: 15

Last season we'd already played Hamilton and Hearts at home. 

[ewan14]

Is Jason's place in the March Scotland squad under threat ?

[The Marly]

This is Davidsons biggest issue. Tommy Wright being put on a pedestal, all his flaws forgotten about, and them being compared.
We didn't concede late goals that cost us games under TW because we'd already fallen behind in the first 20 minutes...

What's your issue with Tommy, Random? I get what you're saying about last season's start vs this season's, but the fact is Tommy turned it round and got us into the top six.
Callum looks to be a very good coach from what I've seen so far and I believe he'll prove that in the future. However that doesn't mean Tommy wasn't excellent for Saints.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

50 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

This is Davidsons biggest issue. Tommy Wright being put on a pedestal, all his flaws forgotten about, and them being compared.

We didn't concede late goals that cost us games under TW because we'd already fallen behind in the first 20 minutes...

Don't think anyone has forgotten about any flaws. They've just said they preferred that teams football as they believe it had much more substance. 

I think Davidson's main issue is alongside Covid resulting fans having to watch from home is more down to the fact the majority of home matches have followed almost an identical pattern. 

Huffing and puffing, plenty effort, looking alright dominating possession but lacking conviction & lacking in ideas to break teams down.  Miss some chances and inevitably lose by an odd goal. Nearly every week it's exactly the same. It'll drive people absolutely mad. 

------

Another goal from working the ball into a better position instead of McNamara firing it in from deep again as well. That needs to continue. 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[The Marly]

Don't think anyone has forgotten about any flaws. They've just said they preferred that teams football as they believe it had much more substance. 
I think Davidson's main issue is alongside Covid resulting fans having to watch from home is more down to the fact the majority of home matches have followed almost an identical pattern. 
The huffing and puffing, looking alright dominating possession but lacking conviction & ideas to go on and win, miss some chances and inevitably lose by an odd goal. Nearly every week it's exactly the same. It'll drive people absolutely mad. 

Given the impact Covid has had on the budget etc, I won't be judging Davidson on this season tbh. As long as we stay up I will be happy enough. As you say, don't think anyone has forgotten Tommy's flaws. I just think the good outweighed the bad with him. I certainly don't think the football was as bad as some are trying to make out.
Callum was always going to be compared to TW and I'm sure he'd have known that when he took the job.