Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[RandomGuy.]

42 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I'm not sure I agree with this to be honest. We dominate pretty much every game we play at home, certainly in terms of territory, but we don't really create *that* many chances. Maybe one or two in a game.

How many are you realistically expecting?

In terms of the league outside the top 4, it's not common for players to be clean through/have a tap in. Our decision making is poor, and we have too many long range shots/crosses, when the situation isn't right for that, but both Hendry and May are in the top 10 in terms of xG for strikers. Only us, Hibs, and Rangers have more than 1 player in that top 10.

[Valentino Bolognese]

38 minutes ago, Kyle said:

I'm not sure I agree with this to be honest. We dominate pretty much every game we play at home, certainly in terms of territory, but we don't really create *that* many chances. Maybe one or two in a game. The good chances we do create get fluffed on a frighteningly consistent scale. I can't imagine we'll continue to play as well as we have done at home - which we have for the most part - and we're still not really picking up results. It's easy just blaming the strikers but I don't think they get that much support from the rest of the team. How many times have we seen a decent looking cross being swung into the box, with only 1 player in there for Saints attacking the ball, even when we have had a decent period of possession leading up to it?

We play good football for the most part but I think the jury is still out on the shape. The players seem to have bought into it so maybe it does just need more time but I can't say I'm convnced.

Last night, to my eyes, it was 100% the finishing and decision-making that cost us what should have been a comfortable win. Outside of Stevie May I think you could argue we currently have the most underperforming strikers in the league although others that should be doing better are also disappointing fans (Long at Motherwell, Stewart at County spring to mind). At home we've scored 2 league goals, one of which was our right wing-back.

I would agree that the balls into the box have been variable at best and it has seemed at times that Callum's philosophy when it come to crosses has been quantity over quality, and, all too often, there's nobody there. 

I think that has changed in recent games though. 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

I guess my concern/query/thoughts are its unclear from a fan perspective what the benefit of our gameplan going forward actually is. More often than not we make it easy to defend against and just crowd outselves out in wide area's while in possession. 

Particularly on the right hand side of the pitch we often have Kerr, McNamara, Conway, potentially a central midfielder and strikers loitering nearby plus 3-4 opposition players within 20 yards of each other in the right channel. 

We don't move the ball around quickly enough or show enough movement to move the defensive unit around to work an opportunity in and around the box or to get in behind in wide areas (when we do we still make the wrong choice) and generally with it just being so crowded after a couple of nothing passes we end up being forced to lump it into the box from deep. 

Having more possession has so far proven to make zero difference going forward as so far we've done little with it. 

 

  

5 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Last night, to my eyes, it was 100% the finishing and decision-making that cost us what should have been a comfortable win. Outside of Stevie May I think you could argue we currently have the most underperforming strikers in the league although others that should be doing better are also disappointing fans (Long at Motherwell, Stewart at County spring to mind). At home we've scored 2 league goals, one of which was our right wing-back.

I would agree that the balls into the box have been variable at best and it has seemed at times that Callum's philosophy when it come to crosses has been quantity over quality, and, all too often, there's nobody there. 

I think that has changed in recent games though. 

I also do agree to some extent that it has changed in recent games. Seems like were trying to be a bit more urgent in final third, particularly on the counter when winning the ball back. Noticed we've been a bit more direct with our running in possession as well. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[The Marly]

How many are you realistically expecting?
In terms of the league outside the top 4, it's not common for players to be clean through/have a tap in. Our decision making is poor, and we have too many long range shots/crosses, when the situation isn't right for that, but both Hendry and May are in the top 10 in terms of xG for strikers. Only us, Hibs, and Rangers have more than 1 player in that top 10.

xG doesn't win games.

[capt_oats]

55 minutes ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Last night, to my eyes, it was 100% the finishing and decision-making that cost us what should have been a comfortable win. Outside of Stevie May I think you could argue we currently have the most underperforming strikers in the league although others that should be doing better are also disappointing fans (Long at Motherwell, Stewart at County spring to mind). At home we've scored 2 league goals, one of which was our right wing-back.

It doesn't really impact on your point in so much as you're 100% correct Long has been disappointing but for the sake of jumping in like an absolute p***k I'd caveat that by saying he's firmly established as our 4th choice behind Watt, Cole and Lang now. So where he was starting games and underperforming in the opening games of the season he's now getting 20 mins off the bench which naturally impacts on how effective he can be - compared with someone like Stewart who's an established first pick for County.

Fwiw, reading all the chat in here about where you seem to be is really familiar and echoes our performances at the start of the season where we were dominating possession, getting shots on goal but seemingly couldn't convert anything.

Against County, United and Accies we averaged 62.66% possession and had a total of 50 shots on goal - we scored 0 but conceded 3 from 8 shots on target (including 1 penalty). 

Edited November 11, 2020 by capt_oats

[Valentino Bolognese]

21 minutes ago, capt_oats said:

It doesn't really impact on your point in so much as you're 100% correct Long has been disappointing but for the sake of jumping in like an absolute p***k I'd caveat that by saying he's firmly established as our 4th choice behind Watt, Cole and Lang now. So where he was starting games and underperforming in the opening games of the season he's now getting 20 mins off the bench which naturally impacts on how effective he can be - compared with someone like Stewart who's an established first pick for County.

Fwiw, reading all the chat in here about where you seem to be is really familiar and echoes our performances at the start of the season where we were dominating possession, getting shots on goal but seemingly couldn't convert anything.

Against County, United and Accies we averaged 62.66% possession and had a total of 50 shots on goal - we scored 0 but conceded 3 from 8 shots on target (including 1 penalty). 

That's a perfectly valid jumping-in, it sort of highlights that we're in more of a County position than a Motherwell position in that you seem to have a bit more strength in depth up top. I really like Lang, not seen too much of Cole this year and Tony Watt - - - I think we could discuss for hours but there's no doubt he's playing his best football for some time because something seems to be motivating him.  There's definitely a touch of the Ross Stewart about Hendry this year but after the first few games he's been on the bench. At least we have May. What we saw last night is that we seem best as a front 3. 

That 3 is heavily reliant on David Wotherspoon who for all his undoubted qualities is inconsistent, which I guess is why he's at Saints.

PS don't come round here boasting about your 8 shots on target.

[Costanza]

Think we can safely assume we won’t be winning on penalties on Saturday.

[Costanza]

Thinking about that chance Hendry missed quite spectacularly; if any of our other players were in exactly the same position would you be confident in them scoring? I wouldn’t be in the slightest, May included. If I’d to stick the mortgage on anybody it’d probably be Wotherspoon or McCann.

Severe lack of composure in the team, especially where it’s needed. Will Melamed bring this? Does he exist?

[RandomGuy.]

2 hours ago, The Marly said:

xG doesn't win games.

I know. Thats the exact point im making.

xG is high showing strikers are getting decent chances.

We aren't scoring goals.

Strikers are the issue, as the system is creating chances.

I doubt anyone could see a compilation of Hendrys misses this season and claim its not all on him at this stage.

[The Marly]

I know. Thats the exact point im making.
xG is high showing strikers are getting decent chances.
We aren't scoring goals.
Strikers are the issue, as the system is creating chances.
I doubt anyone could see a compilation of Hendrys misses this season and claim its not all on him at this stage.

Given that we've struggled to score even when he's not in the team, it's not all on him.

[RandomGuy.]

55 minutes ago, The Marly said:

Given that we've struggled to score even when he's not in the team, it's not all on him.

I'm saying his lack of goals is his own fault.

[perthsaint1977]

Or simply not fit enough yet?
However my money is on shite, and I'll be delighted to lose that bet.

Carrying an injury unfortunately

[tree house tam]

2 hours ago, perthsaint1977 said:

22 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Or simply not fit enough yet?
However my money is on shite, and I'll be delighted to lose that bet.

Carrying an injury unfortunately

Should've just left that out,  then we could see how many and for how long the knickerwetters get themselves in a twist.

As we can see a few have been at it already. 

Edited November 11, 2020 by tree house tam

[perthsaint1977]

Should've just left that out,  then we could see how many and for how long the knickerwetters get themselves in a twist.
As we can see a few have been at it already. 

As Callum has done all season, he won't risk a player unless 100% fit. No issues with that personally

[Trackdaybob]

10 hours ago, The Marly said:

xG doesn't win games.

Something, something, xG, something, get it in the sea.........

 

[PauloPerth]

10 hours ago, Costanza said:

Thinking about that chance Hendry missed quite spectacularly; if any of our other players were in exactly the same position would you be confident in them scoring? I wouldn’t be in the slightest, May included. If I’d to stick the mortgage on anybody it’d probably be Wotherspoon or McCann.

Agree about McCann, not Wotherspoon, he missed a great chance on Tuesday night that he skied from 8-9 yards out that Hendry had laid off in the second half.

 But your general point is spot on, absolutely all of them need to improve in the final third in terms of delivery and finishing.  We don't have a single player whose doing their job in the final third to a near enough consistent standard; Spoony after a great spell has been poor ever since the first half v Accies, Conway can do some great things but then put in a lot of abysmal corners and blast chances and crosses over the bar.  Even May, who's been our best attacking player this season, was fairly anonymous against killie and after looking very lively when he came on the other night, steps up and hits a weak penalty to leave us chasing the shootout from the first kick.  It sounds quite critical, but if we can sort it out we'll be a very good side as the rest of our play has mostly been excellent throughout the team.

I'd start Hendry and May together in all our non-OF home matches for a run of 3-4 games.  We've tried it briefly this season but gave up on it  too quickly.  We need far more threat in the box at home and May looked so effective having more players up around him on Tuesday; he's an intelligent player who links up well and defenders have someone else to occupy themselves with who's challenge for headers.

I realise I'm probably in a minority of one on this right now, but I love Callum Hendry's baws (not literally). He's been poor this season with no goals, and has been out the picture, but he comes back into the team and gets involved in everything. His decision making and finishing were awful, but he never once hid. He put himself onto a nothing cross and should have won a penalty, he won some flick ons and set up a good chance for Spoony.  He had some awful shots, and missed a sitter, but how many shots at goal did May and Kane have between them all game?  

For all the talk of it being an awful performance; we had far more possession and shots and deserved to win a match that finished 0-0. I say that's not all that different from the match 3 weeks ago v United.

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

I hear Hendry's still out on the pitch now trying to score. 

No luck yet though. 

[tree house tam]

Hendry is the new Kane, a nearly man that will never make it as a first choice premiership footballer.

Except at Saints,  we have some daft idea,  a bit like that burd hinging in and trying to change that lovable rougue, that we can't do better.

[RandomGuy.]

6 minutes ago, tree house tam said:

Hendry is the new Kane, a nearly man that will never make it as a first choice premiership footballer.

Except at Saints,  we have some daft idea,  a bit like that burd hinging in and trying to change that lovable rougue, that we can't do better.

Tbf Hendry last season outperformed Morelos and Griffiths, and was scoring at a similar rate to Edouard despite getting less chances.

There does seem to be underlying reasons as to why he's struggled to score regularly this season.

[Valentino Bolognese]

9 hours ago, Trackdaybob said:

Something, something, xG, something, get it in the sea.........

 

You do know that every time you think 'he should have scored from there' or 'should never have taken that shot on', that's basically your own internal estimation of xG? If you walk away from a game thinking 'Hendry should have had 3 today', that's your xG?

All xG does is rather than say 'he should have scored' it looks at the numbers and says 'the average striker scores that one 24% of the time'. 

It's a really good metric for how a team's performing and usually aligns pretty well with what most folk see on the pitch. It's not voodoo.