Double Winning St Johnstone FC Thread

[tree house tam]

2 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tbf most goals can be sourced to a defensive mistake.

For Livis first McNamara is side by side with the goalscorer in the box, then just walks away leaving him free to tap in. Nobody seems to mention that though...

Going to look deeper into it, but believe we counter attack less, while having more touches around the opposition box. Our high xG is almost entirely accumulation rather than outright quality, if that makes sense.

It's the shite corner that puts us under pressure in the first place, forget MOH and McNamara. 

[Lang Toon Saintee]

I was told at the weekend that two senior players may be going on loan shortly and the names I got were Duffy and Kane..If this does happen there may be one more loan signing.

[Radford]

Interesting look into why "creating all these chances" maybe isn't the boast it's cracked up to be.

https://stjohnstonefananalysis.com/2020/09/28/why-can-st-johnstone-not-score/

Edited September 29, 2020 by Radford

[DukDukGoose]

1 hour ago, Radford said:

Interesting look into why "creating all these chances" maybe isn't the boast it's cracked up to be.

https://stjohnstonefananalysis.com/2020/09/28/why-can-st-johnstone-not-score/

Good read @RandomGuy.

[The Marly]

Tbf most goals can be sourced to a defensive mistake.
For Livis first McNamara is side by side with the goalscorer in the box, then just walks away leaving him free to tap in. Nobody seems to mention that though...
Going to look deeper into it, but believe we counter attack less, while having more touches around the opposition box. Our high xG is almost entirely accumulation rather than outright quality, if that makes sense.

xG must be the most pointless stat ever.

[Valentino Bolognese]

2 hours ago, The Marly said:

19 hours ago, RandomGuy. said:

Tbf most goals can be sourced to a defensive mistake.
For Livis first McNamara is side by side with the goalscorer in the box, then just walks away leaving him free to tap in. Nobody seems to mention that though...
Going to look deeper into it, but believe we counter attack less, while having more touches around the opposition box. Our high xG is almost entirely accumulation rather than outright quality, if that makes sense.

xG must be the most pointless stat ever.

Not sure I agree with that actually. The dataset it's based is very robust and when it's used the way it is in that article it does what good stats often do, which is agree with the evidence of your own eyes. I think it's much more revealing than, or example, possession. Like all propensity stats it's unhelpful in the particular but accurate in general. It's why the bookies use - it can't tell you what will happen in a particular game but over a season it seems pretty reliable.  

Have to say that's a really good article too which highlights a key area where the team are going wrong. Need to move the ball faster through the midfield and we're not doing that in large part due to the team instructions, based on our manager's view that "you get your goals from crosses"'.  Well, we're not, because we don't have the striker(s) to capitalise when we give the opposition time to organise. That's what the article says, based on the stats, and we've all seen it week in, week out. 

As an aside I tried to keep a mental note of the goals from the weekend when I was watching the Sportscene. I counted 17 goals, but I think only 2 from 'classic' crosses. There were a couple of penalties from crosses and a couple of goals from corners, and a penalty from a corner. Numbers could well be wrong but I'm not going to go back to check, but point being that on a random premiership weekend Callum's philosophy doesn't seem to hold water. 

Edited September 29, 2020 by Valentino Bolognese

[RandomGuy.]

ICT fans reckon the deal for Duffy would be a permanent deal, and thats why his loan to Morton was cancelled.

[PauloPerth]

2 hours ago, Valentino Bolognese said:

Have to say that's a really good article too which highlights a key area where the team are going wrong. Need to move the ball faster through the midfield and we're not doing that in large part due to the team instructions, based on our manager's view that "you get your goals from crosses"'.  Well, we're not, because we don't have the striker(s) to capitalise when we give the opposition time to organise. That's what the article says, based on the stats, and we've all seen it week in, week out. 

Despite the huge number of crosses we've put in in previous games, a hell of a lot of them are when the opposition is set up and facing up the park as you say.  It's far more dangerous to get a cross in when defenders are chasing back and facing their own goal.  Thats why in games against County, Livi etc it became a fairly routine case of big centre backs heading the ball back in roughly the direction it's come from.  It's bread and butter for most Scottish centre backs, and what they're happiest doing all day long.

I think that article is good, though it's basically gathering stats to support what many of us have been implying for a few weeks about the speed of our build up play.  I remember posting similar on Saturday when May's shot was saved by the Livi keeper, and I imagine it will crop up in a few match threads from different folk over the past few weeks.

A big issue we have is losing careless goals which allows other teams to sit in and it becomes really hard to get in behind them.

Dominating possession in matches can give such a false impression of superiority.  Two seasons ago when we went on that great run that took us to 3rd/4th around the winter break before barely winning another game from there on, we were often second best in possession stats but were destroying teams through quick counters with Kennedy, Wright and Watt deadly on the break.

We obviously need to mix up our attacking game plan a bit.  Like the article says, gamble a bit more on a penetrating pass.  Be interesting to see how we cope in the betfred group matches against a few teams that are likely to want to sit in against us.

[PauloPerth]

Wouldn't expect any mention this time given the results we've suffered, but Ryan Porteous and Declan Gallagher in the Scotland squad... there's surely hope for Jason Kerr in the near future??

[RandomGuy.]

If folk want an RG suggestion for a "big physical striker", then prepare to be astounded, and get ready to mock.

Michael Ngoo is a free agent after a couple of seasons in Albania, bagged 13 in 31 in their top flight last season. 27yo. 

Most of his goals are a mix of him dominating his CH physically, or being incredibly scabby by being in the right place when the ball drops in the box, a skill that seems to be a skill as it happens so much.

Zero idea how the Albanian league compares, nor if he would be affordable etc.

Edited September 29, 2020 by RandomGuy.

[The Marly]

Despite the huge number of crosses we've put in in previous games, a hell of a lot of them are when the opposition is set up and facing up the park as you say.  It's far more dangerous to get a cross in when defenders are chasing back and facing their own goal.  Thats why in games against County, Livi etc it became a fairly routine case of big centre backs heading the ball back in roughly the direction it's come from.  It's bread and butter for most Scottish centre backs, and what they're happiest doing all day long.
I think that article is good, though it's basically gathering stats to support what many of us have been implying for a few weeks about the speed of our build up play.  I remember posting similar on Saturday when May's shot was saved by the Livi keeper, and I imagine it will crop up in a few match threads from different folk over the past few weeks.
A big issue we have is losing careless goals which allows other teams to sit in and it becomes really hard to get in behind them.
Dominating possession in matches can give such a false impression of superiority.  Two seasons ago when we went on that great run that took us to 3rd/4th around the winter break before barely winning another game from there on, we were often second best in possession stats but were destroying teams through quick counters with Kennedy, Wright and Watt deadly on the break.
We obviously need to mix up our attacking game plan a bit.  Like the article says, gamble a bit more on a penetrating pass.  Be interesting to see how we cope in the betfred group matches against a few teams that are likely to want to sit in against us.

Agree with absolutely all of that.

[RandomGuy.]

3 hours ago, PauloPerth said:

Dominating possession in matches can give such a false impression of superiority.

Aye.

[PauloPerth]

That’s quite an extreme example of it there right enough!

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

Davidson says:

"We’re still in the market with over a week left. We are looking to strengthen the squad.

 

Hopefully I can get a new face in and give the lads a little bit of a lift to make sure we kick on for the rest of the season."

He also said last week were unlikely to sign anyone now that the fans return has been delayed. Mixed messages much. Wonder if the communication inside the club is that contradictory as well. 

[Widge]

1 hour ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Davidson says:

"We’re still in the market with over a week left. We are looking to strengthen the squad.

 

Hopefully I can get a new face in and give the lads a little bit of a lift to make sure we kick on for the rest of the season."

He also said last week were unlikely to sign anyone now that the fans return has been delayed. Mixed messages much. Wonder if the communication inside the club is that contradictory as well. 

Or maybe things have changed in a week? Pretty sure board decisions and finances are discussed and changed every single day.

I don't know what it is right now, but for some reason saints fans just have to moan or criticise Davidson and the club generally. 

[Mr Positive, sometimes.]

46 minutes ago, Widge said:

Or maybe things have changed in a week? Pretty sure board decisions and finances are discussed and changed every single day.

I don't know what it is right now, but for some reason saints fans just have to moan or criticise Davidson and the club generally. 

Maybe things didn't just change? You're speculating and guessing exactly as I did. 

"I don't know what it is right now"  people are entitled to their opinion and simply because you don't agree doesn't make those people wrong and you correct. 

You don't need to jump to little Callums defence. I'm not sure why you are either. As I've stated it's mixed messages because that's exactly what it is. I'm not sure how you can sit there and suggest it's not?

Edited September 30, 2020 by Mr Positive, sometimes.

[RandomGuy.]

8 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Maybe things didn't just change?

Maybe a player who was meant to loaned out with a percentage of his wage is now being sold.

Davidson clearly taken time to pick the right striking option, instead of rushing in like the signings of some huddies we've had.

You reap what you sow.

[Salguodinmethven.]

2 hours ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Davidson says:

"We’re still in the market with over a week left. We are looking to strengthen the squad.

 

Hopefully I can get a new face in and give the lads a little bit of a lift to make sure we kick on for the rest of the season."

He also said last week were unlikely to sign anyone now that the fans return has been delayed. Mixed messages much. Wonder if the communication inside the club is that contradictory as well. 

Sounds as clear as Tommy's messages often were blah blah.

[Widge]

42 minutes ago, Mr Positive, sometimes. said:

Maybe things didn't just change? You're speculating and guessing exactly as I did. 

"I don't know what it is right now"  people are entitled to their opinion and simply because you don't agree doesn't make those people wrong and you correct. 

You don't need to jump to little Callums defence. I'm not sure why you are either. As I've stated it's mixed messages because that's exactly what it is. I'm not sure how you can sit there and suggest it's not?

I'm not the one who's suggesting the club is indecisive or not changing goalposts. As is there right for what it's worth.

No, the constant digs at Davidson and the board on here and various other places are becoming ridiculous. There's a global pandemic and we've a brand new manager in place who's trying to get the team playing again. I'm not seeing very many positive comments from saints fans, if any at all and right now it's not needed. 

You kind of simply undermine your points by using the words, "little Callum" in what is clearly a derogatory fashion. I'm not defending him at all, nor am I defending the club, both deserve some criticism, but right now it's constant and totally over the top.

You're right that's my opinion, but I'm allowed to give it in the same way you are. 

[Salguodinmethven.]

37 minutes ago, RandomGuy. said:

Maybe a player who was meant to loaned out with a percentage of his wage is now being sold.

Davidson clearly taken time to pick the right striking option, instead of rushing in like the signings of some huddies we've had.

You reap what you sow.

Aye hopefully would be a striker,won't hold ma breath.